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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hey young man
where are you?
you invested too much time , effort and emotion in this to simply skip school

please dont make me need to hunt you down :s:

seriously my friend we have a journey to complete
are you up for it?

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Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:55 am 
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Location: UK
Hi 62
I know that you have a new job and that you are away from home without computer access for much of the time but I do hope that you are completing the last dozen exercises in the programme

as said before you came too far not to complete the whole

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
A. Prior to an expected trigger (pretty generic but this applies to all expected triggers I could come up with) :
1. Remind myself that I am a student, still learning;
2. Ask myself how does this honor God, my Wife and myself;
3. Ask myself what could i gain & what could i lose;
4. Remind myself that the emotions are FINITE and will pass;
5. What value(s) does this support;
6. What value(s) does this ignore;
7. Walk away no matter the consequences;
8. Review the situation;
9. Own the consequences good or bad.

B. Prior to a Spontaneous Trigger:
1. Allow 5~10 minutes at least four times a day to “contemplate” possible situations/triggers, longer if possible but ;
The rest of this happens inside my head, so kind of difficult to convey here.

C. On the experience of an urge:
1. DISENGAGE before the trance takes over;
2. Put emotions aside;
3. Engage action plan or build one “on the fly”;
4. Review actions and consequences, good or bad, afterwards and adjust action plan as necessary.

D. On discovery of being “off-track”:
1. Pick myself up, dust myself off and start by getting stabilized emotionally;
2. Tear apart everything to find where i went sideways;
3. Seek whatever help I can find to sort out what happened or more likely, what series of events (or complacency) i allowed to side-track me;
4. Revisit my values and adjust as necessary, (perhaps revise);
5. Move on with as much awareness as possible to be on the lookout for potential “potholes”.

E. On schedule:
1. List of signs/symptoms:
A. Scanning;
B. Exhaustion;
C. Nervousness/apprehension
i. About Wife;
ii. About job;
iii. About co-workers;
iv. About socializing;
v. About myself.
D. Self-imposed Isolation;
E. Anger/irritability about minor things or nothing;
F. Arrogant attitude about almost anything (I’m right you’re wrong);
G. Depression;
H. Sadness for no particular reason;
I. Boredom

2. List of major life events/triggers:
A. Separation/divorce
B. Death of spouse
C. Death of child/grandchild
D. Loss of job/income
E. Loss of home
F. Being around someone of that “type”;
G. Boredom.

3. Action Plan:
A. As above, stabilize the emotions first;
B. Examine what is happening currently;
C. Examine how I got to this place;
D. Evaluate which values were sacrificed, decide if they need to be modified;
E. Evaluate which boundaries we crossed/broken and adjust as needed;
F. Talk to those around me that I can trust (if any) to see what signs were there and what they were;
G. List the signs and review the list weekly;

This lesson is chaotic, as is life right now and has been that way for several months. This is not a regurgitation of the content of the lesson although it seem like it. Getting back in the saddle though my internet access is very limited right now.
I hope this makes more sense than it seems to…..
P.H.P.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 1626
HI 62andbroken,

Good to see you. Long time since we've seen each other! :g:

All I will say at this point is, your determination to continue is inspiring. Keep working at it.

:g:

Boundless

_________________
"If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where do you expect to find it?" - Dogen

"Be a lamp unto yourself." - Buddha

"The obstacle is the path."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
i wanted to say something like "i can't believe it's been over a year ....." but that is bullshit ..... complacency set in ... again ....

i'm back, ashamed and embarassed, but back nonetheless.

Some of me is the same man i was, some of me (some very important "parts") are very different .....

My lustfullness towards all (but my Wife, but that's something else) is under control .... difficult at times when i'm very lonely (my job is 160 miles away from Home so i'm in our rv 4 nights, 5 days a week, at Home 3 nights 2 days a week) but so far so good.

My love addiction is the same, but i haven't been exposed to one of that "type" for quite a while. i have been working through all of the "scenario's" i can think of so i'm as prepared for when it happens as i can be ..... and i think i will be able to see it and deal with it before it overwhelms me ..... overconfidence has kicked my ass before though so i work hard at NOT letting myself think i can handle "ANY" situation, back-up stratagy is to turn and run like hell ....

Still working on real values, not the bullshit ones i kept coming up with. Self-confidence is one of the BIG ones, still fight with that one every day; Loving my Wife is anothre BIG one, still working out how to show Her that i DO love Her and ONLY HER, but i've hurt Her SO VERY much with my lies and bullshit, that She may or may not ever accept that from me; truthfullness is one i've made MAJOR advancement in, but again, so many lies, so much bullshit .....

Accepting all of my faults is another one that has bee a major struggle for me, but it's gettingeasier, accepting when i've screwed up and admitting it to whoever i need to has gotten much easier, having them accept it hasbeen the biggest hurdle, but i've finally realized that there is not much more i can do about that then be honest and accept their reactions as is.

i've been really humbled over that last 5+ years, most particularily the last year, with my Wife, my kids and grandkids, my job and co-workers ....

i think the biggest thing for me is seeing and realizing just how much of a selfish, arrogant, self-rightious, "don't give a fuck about anyone or anything but myself" kind of a little asshole i was and still am .....

Anyway, i'm back to work through more lessons to help me get my life on, or closer the the right path for myself and, hopefully, for my Wife and family.......


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
This week has been ugly, LOTS of smoke in the air around here, hard to breathe, hard to see ..... physically ....

Emotionally i'm still working myway through who and what i really am .... so far what i "discovered" is who and what i'm NOT .... seems like everything i thought i was is bullshit .... a mechanic, NO, an elecrician, NO, a computer guy, NO, an good driver, NO, an "expert on old english sports cars, NO, a good draftsman, NO, a good husband and/or father NO, NO, NO. Seems that i;m NOTHING at all like what i thought .... or imagines/fantasized i was ....

Two things still REALLY bother me:

1. Is there ANYTHING "real" about me that i believed i was, any of "me" that i actually am??

2. What am i going to find at the "bottom"? Am i actually someone that i wll like, or at least be be able to tolerate, or wil i be that worthlesswpile of shit that i feel like so often??

Another HUGE problem between my Wife and i, She still see's me as scanning, especially Her, i do NOT think that i am, but She's sees me doing it so i AM .... so why can i not see it, WTF is STILL wrong????

And what is worse, She has NO trust left in me, so it doesn't seem to matter how well i'm doing during the week because She's not there, She doesn'r believe a word of anything ....i'n NOT blaming Her, i brought this ALL on us myself, just VERY frustrating ....

i am learning to deal with frustration much more effectively though, a big plus .....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hi 62
great to see you back, but sorry that you need to be

Quote:
Is there ANYTHING "real" about me that i believed i was, any of "me" that i actually am??


addiction is very real but it exists only because we not only let it exist we damn well encourage it
determination is also very real and by coming back you have proven that you have that in spades
stop being so negative look at the positives but dont put the negatives under the carpet

2.
Quote:
What am i going to find at the "bottom"? Am i actually someone that i wll like, or at least be be able to tolerate, or wil i be that worthlesswpile of shit that i feel like so often??


where is the bottom?
when you have peeled away all of those layers that you used for coping you will find the core you,but that is not the end
from there the only way is up

the recovered you you will love and perhaps even like
so go to it my friend

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
Thank you Kenzo ......

A loooooong week of "discovery" for me ..... "discovered" that my ego is at the root of all of my fuck-up behaviors ... or my Lust, both are involved in almost EVERYTHING since i was ..... well for at least 55 years now.

My jobs have all been for the "position" and for the compliments from people about how much i "helped" them or how "smart" i was, or whatever they said about what i did to help them .... had nothing to do with helping them and everything to do with getting the "feel good" from them. My "position" or title was the same thing, better title meant more recognition as a good whatever, ego stroking ....

Same thing for every relationship i've ever been in .... all about me feeling good and NOT about whoever i was "with" .... same damned thing with my addictions, and all of the filthy, ugly pathetic thought and fantasies that went/go with them .... ALL my ego pushing my Lust pushing my ego pushing my Lust pushing my ego .... wash, rinse, repeat.

Keeping my Lust in check is also keeping my ego in check .... how the hell do you crush your ego ??? Can you ???

This realization had REALLY changed my view of thisng. My job became a means to a paycheck, nothing more .... used to be very important to me to be a "(insert title here)" ..... i realized that i don't give a fuck anymore, would be as happy, maybe happier not having to deal with people AT ALL any more .... but that doesn't earn a paycheck, not where i am anyway .... so it's a matter of hanging on as long as i can for us, and yes there is still an us .... so far ....

So it is with almost everything else too, ALL ego driven .... and since i wasn't really as intelligent as i thought i was, or as good of a (insert pretty much anything here) i decided to pretend that i was a LOT of things i wasn't..... and i managed to pull it off with a lot of people (you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time .....) but the one that REALLY mattered, my Wife, not so much .....

And my Lust drove my coping mechanisms for emothins that i didn't know how to deal with .... which was all of them .... so came the scanning, the fantasizing, the "affairs" all of the BULLSHIT behaviors that i used over the decades to not have to feel the lonliness (because i wouldn't let anyone close, they couldn't possibly stand the "real" me), the pain, the self-doubt, the guilt,the shame, ALL of it ... and to hide from feeling happiness and fulfillment because i can't possibly feel good about myself, that would mean that there is something good in me, but if there is, then why do i need to do all of thes UGLY FILTHY BULLSHIT to hide and "feel good"????

In a bad place tonight ....

And Yes Kenzo, i understand where Your Wife is coming from with her statement about the pain .... my Wife has said as much too, WE REALLY FUCKED THEM UP with all of our bullshit, lies, and stupid selfish don't-give-a-fuck-about-anyone-or-anything-but-me choices. No amount of sorrow, guilt, shame, tears or anything else will EVER erase that pain and they are the only one's who can decided on if they will forgive us or not ....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hello 62

Quote:
why do i need to do all of thes UGLY FILTHY BULLSHIT to hide and "feel good"????


actually you dont need to and you never did
you chose to and convinced yourself that yo had no choice
but you did and do

Quote:
In a bad place tonight ....

remember that emotions are cyclic and finite

Quote:
they are the only one's who can decided on if they will forgive us or not ....

Oh so true
but additionally we need to decide if we deserve that forgiveness or not

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
This topic : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25051

Brought it all home ..... again.

Where am I??

Still sorting out who and what i am versus who and what i've pretended to be or put out there for others to "see". As before i have a much better idea of who and what i'm NOT instead of who and what i am ....

I'm not ANYONE'S hero, particularily my own. Always thought i was .... or pretended to be .... or in reality imagined i was .... but am VERY MUCH NOT .....

I'm NOT an "intellectual giant" by any streach of the imagination .... just average like most of us ... that was a REAL ugly realization and ego-killer for me .... i'm not much physically so being mentally outstanding was very important .... but i'm not.

A good lover ..... that's not even a BAD joke, just pathetic .... another ego-killer.

I'm not funny, or popular or particularily likeable .... my "people skills" that i was so proud of are barely adequate ....

Bad decisions driven by emotions have and still haunt me .... i lost my job .... i threw away my last job recently because i just decided i wanted to be home, didn't think it through, didn't talk it out with my wife, just blew it off and managed to get myself terminated ..... a BIG deal .... finding a descent job at 66 is a "challenge" and there is no way we can live without one .... or two.

So i guess i have learned a few things about myself, like as hard as it is for me to see, there ARE others (my Wife especially) to think about in any decisions i make ..... my selfishness has almost destroyed everything in my life .... almost .....

That's where i am right now, not a good place .... but i've been in worse places both knowingly and not ....

More soon.

THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN KENZO!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:37 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hi my young friend :w:


Quote:
More soon.

soon could mean at anytime, when will soon be to you?

Quote:
That's where i am right now, not a good place

So lets get started on moving from that place, you moved forwards before and are now at a rest halt not back where you started
Get back on the road NOW, Soon is simply putting it off and we both know that you are better than that

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
62
it has been three months since you posted "more soon"

you have grown through the use of this programme, continued use cannot harm and surely helps
:pe:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 246
Good afternoon Kenzo .... and ALL of you!!!!

Still here, though not like i want to be let alone should be .....

Have another job here at home, in a retail setting, HUGE change for me, NEVER thought i would work in retail ... or wanted to actually, but it's OK for now, helps pay the bills. Work in sporting goods .... hunting, fishing, camping and the like, and electronics. Also going from $22.00+/- per hour to $13.00 +/- per hour was a MAJOR shock

Still know a LOT more about who i'm not then who i am. i've managed to sort out that in not much good at or knowledgeable about almost everything i though i was good at or knew about. REALLY frustrating and not just a little demeaning to have to admit to myself and others, particularly my Wife (yes somehow we are still "together").

"Real men" just know about mechanics and building and guns and electronics and all kinds of other "manly" stuff ..... so either i'm not a "Real man" or that is not true .... Worst part has been the frustration that comes from having to say that i'm sorry but i'm not a (fill in the blank) and i don't know/can't fix it ..... especially after literally decades of deluding myself into thinking that i knew and could ....

Also feels like my brain is turning into mush .... complete lack of stimulation ..... Let me explain a little, i quit watching TV several years ago, not much on and i sexualized EVERYTHING; same with movies, sexualized just about everything .... or everyone female anyway .... only allow myself various animated movies where the charters are neutral (hard to sexualize a bug or an alien) but my collection is small and budget is smaller .... after the 35th time it's just not worth the effort. i'm rarely on line anymore, by choice because of my past abuse of the internet (sort of explains why it's so far between posts here, something i'm fixing). i ignore news and politics anymore because it dawned on me that it's all the same, just the names and places change. i read very little because that was another place i went to escape and fantasize (loved science fiction and fantasy). So it feels like i'm living in an intellectual vacuum.

Doesn't really help much when my Wife is on Her "smart phone" most of the time and talks about different things that She's read about .... having to answer "i don't have a clue" is another "ego-buster" .....

Emotionally i've grown up .... a lot in some areas, just a little in others .... i suspect that's the same for all of us here .....

My Wife and i have a "strained" relationship at best .... i don't know how to have a relationship (never learned) and She is not at all sure of who the hell i am or if She even wants a relation ship with me (the REAL me whoever that is) but she sure a HELL doesn't like who i was or who She still thinks i am .... but i hate him too so we share that at least .....

Work is ..... work. i have to deal with the customers most of whom are OK, but some of which can be a "challenge" along with coworkers who are the same. my Wife is NOT pleased that i have to work with some female coworkers or deal with female customers and She is 100% right to feel that way .... about EVERYTHING .....

See here : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25136

Yes, i've been EXPECTING a lot from Her with absolutely NO right to expect anything but anger, pain and disgust .....

Sex is not a necessity anymore, nothing but a fond but distant and vague memory anymore .... what i miss the most is just being close, holding hands, sitting together, snuggling, sleeping together ..... perhaps someday again .....

But this is ALL consequences of my selfish behavior, selfish actions/non-actions, selfish decisions ...... ALL my own fault .....

i'm not beating myself up anymore, nor drowning in the guilt and shame .... that's self-defeating at best, reasons to act-out at worst ....

So, i am back for the duration and WILL check-in every few days, no less then weekly, i promise Kenzo !!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hi Kiddo :s:

Quote:
Still here, though not like i want to be let alone should be .....


Sorry but from the shoulder , are you still here? prove it, not to me not to this community, not to your wife but to the only one who really needs to be convinced, yourself

I read your recent post and get the impression that as you are "understating " yourself and your abilities then perhaps you are somewhat feeling sorry for yourself
if so DON'T

Have another job here at home, in a retail setting, HUGE change for me, NEVER thought i would work in retail ... or wanted to actually, but it's OK for now, helps pay the bills. Work in sporting goods .... hunting, fishing, camping and the like, and electronics. Also going from $22.00+/- per hour to $13.00 +/- per hour was a MAJOR shock

Quote:
Still know a LOT more about who i'm not then who i am
.
Exactly
use that knowledge and start moving forwards again, value yourself and appreciate how far you have travelled since your enrolment herein
we both know that you could and indeed should have progressed further and we know whose fault that is but beating yourself up does not help



Quote:
Also feels like my brain is turning into mush .... complete lack of stimulation ..... So it feels like i'm living in an intellectual vacuum.

And who holds the key to that issue?
Dont simply grow old, just grow

Quote:
Wife is NOT pleased that i have to work with some female coworkers or deal with female customers and She is 100% right to feel that way .... about EVERYTHING .....


Sorry but that is for her to address and resolve, she really needs to take a step back and leave you to control you, not beasy I know as my ex still is in the same vein


Quote:
So, i am back for the duration and WILL check-in every few days, no less then weekly, i promise Kenzo !!!!!


My friend , promise this to yourself, get back on the bike
NOW
:pe:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3815
Location: UK
Hi 62
Quote:
So, i am back for the duration and WILL check-in every few days, no less then weekly,


:pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe:
Perhaps those words have a different meaning in the USA?
Choose 62
why lose more time?

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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