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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:06 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 835
Location: Sweden
Hi all

Long time no see.

***Potentially triggering post for people dealing with anger issues or who have been subjected to them***




















I wanted to hear your view on anger and anger management.

I've always had an anger issue as long as I can remember and I even thought I dealt with it about three years ago when I chose to act out my anger in a very destructive way on several occassions. But, it seems that these issues have resurfaced again and especially so since I had a baby in the end of 2015. Basically I choose to scream VERY loudly and agitated in order to get a reaction. In the past I've followed, for example, my partner when she's walked away from me because she decided she couldn't deal with me. During this ritual, I shut down and it's fairly hard to get through to me until the ritual is acted out. I want to be clear that there's no physical violence involved but it I would still term it abusive behaviour or at least borderline abusive because it's a behaviour aimed AT other people to provoke a reaction.

In the last few month or so I again acted out my anger (I don't believe that anger boils over, so to speak, I.E. angry behaviour is as much of a ritual as addictive behaviour is, it's all about how we choose to manage our emotions IMO) in a way that's not coherent with my values and I've violated the integrity of my wife and my daughter.

I am going to start working on this issue again because it's destroying my marriage and it's a behavioir that's harmful for my daughter, and it's been haunting me all my life regardless. If my wife chooses to leave me, so be it, I have to respect that decision and still continue to cull this destructive behaviour from my life because I'm a sadder and lonelier person because of it.

So, anyway, I think the behaviour is caused by several factors.
- Entitlement issues. I am very focused on myself and my own needs. Still, despite being a father.
- Trust issues. I don't trust people, not even those close to me. Why this is the case is complicated but it doesn't really matters as even though there are legitimate causes for my distrust, they are costing me the people I hold most dear in my life.
- Vengeful attitude. My anger is often caused by a feeling of trying to get even or even get one up on the person I'm arguing with. A "Who do you think you are to hurt me" kind of attitude. I used to think it was "I haven't done anything to deserve to be hurt by you" but I would say it's much more hateful than I used to think. It's good that I've come to understand this but it's not good news. As far as I understand it, this is often the underlying attitude of people who physically abuse their family members and such.
- Small mindedness. Very much related to the above. To get even, to not be able to see the bigger picture and just think "this feels hurtful now but we can discuss it later".

I am now going to start working on these issues. So I was wondering if there was anyone else out there who has gone or is going through the same issues or regardless, has any insights or comments or questions?

best
Martin (who is no longer a coach on this site although his account still say he is)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:06 pm
Posts: 130
Hi Martin,

I understand how this rage can be painful for you and your family.

I suffered the same, and Still have rage crisis (especially at work).

I made 2 discoveries recently (in a book about emotions)
1. Anger and rage are two different and opposite emotions
2. Emotion express a message: anger is the expression of the défense, rage is the expression of a frustration.

This is a discovery for me. What I used to describe as anger, was in fact a rage (of course it exists many différent level of intensity).

My rage happens during situation I am not confortable, and by the way I feel powerless, frustrated.

The rage is usually followed by the shame. The shame to overeact, to give pain to my self and others.

In fact I should intreprate rage as a signal to let it go, to find another strategy. And usually it is what I do, but to late, after rage and after shame.

With these 2 discoveries, I have decided to develop awareness about rage. Catch signal in time, to anticipate the émotional change, and take thé contrôle of the situation to avoid frustration (it can consist in let it go).

Basically it is the same approach than for any urge. This emotion is as normal as the others, but it requises skills to understand the message behind, and to avoid rage based behaviors.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:37 am 
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Partner's Mentor

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
Posts: 624
Hi Martin -

Thank you for the post and the both sides. I've done a lot of work on setting boundaries around my husband's anger and understanding my own.

Here's what I have learned. Anger is just another emotion. It's a sign that we need to attend to something and do something different. Where it trips us up is when we use it as a substitute to cover other emotions. It's easier to feel than fear. Better than hurt. So the first thing I think we need to do is take a breath, give ourselves a moment, and figure out what are the emotions under that anger. Are we feeling worthless? Ashamed? Hurt? Once we figure out what is really going on with us emotionally, then we have to do the hard work to address those underlying wounds.

Anger can also be addictive. Think of the rush of chemicals we feel. It's a relief after we blow off steam. My husband's anger was another way to manage his anxiety.

And, frankly, it can be rewarding, but only in the short term. My husband can shut me up and back me off with his anger. It works in the short term. But in the long term, it destroys relationships. The advice I've received is that if my husband doesn't learn to not rage at me is to get away from him. With radical honesty: the best way to deal with an angry man is to get away from an angry man.

We need to learn we have a choice in how to respond to our anger. It can feel outsize, but again, it's just an emotion. We do not have to be destructive in our expression of anger. But, it takes a while to learn this and I think we have to address the underlying wounds in order to not rage away. Otherwise we're just stuffing the anger down and that doesn't work either. So, if I lose control or my husband loses control of his anger, we must repair as soon as possible. Owning our anger. Apologizing for our impact. Addressing and understanding what was really going on with us. Not blaming and projecting.

I hope this is helpful.

dnell


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3613
Location: UK
Hi Martin

Hoppas att du fortfarande är ren
and hoping this translates as was meant
as you know and as others have said anger is just an emotion. you can and will deal with this as you proved that you could whilst recovering

analysis is the place to start and you appear to have started on this already
however a few eyes wide open prompts might help, bin what is not useful
so
Quote:
I've always had an anger issue as long as I can remember
who or what are you angry with my guess yourself?

Quote:
these issues have resurfaced again and especially so since I had a baby in the end of 2015.


your and your wife's lives have changed, you need to change accordingly,just as you both changed post D day, babies bring great love and joy but parenting is not easy
now you are three, and do remember that a common trait that we have/had is selfishness

Quote:
I would still term it abusive behaviour
I agree hence boundaries are necessary and must be honoured



Quote:
I am going to start working on this issue again because it's destroying my marriage


Is it IT or is it You?

accept all responsibility



-
Quote:
Entitlement issues. I am very focused on myself and my own needs.
see above

-
Quote:
Trust issues. I don't trust people,
do you trust yourself and do you expect others to trust you, have / are you demonstrating signs of betraying trust?



-
Quote:
Vengeful attitude
.
Martin reflect on those that you helped here on RN, vengeance is not your trait


Quote:
I am now going to start working on these issues.
:g: :g: :g: :g: :g:

Quote:
Martin (who is no longer a coach on this site


sorry to hear that

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:06 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 835
Location: Sweden
BOVARY wrote:
Hi Martin,

I understand how this rage can be painful for you and your family.

I suffered the same, and Still have rage crisis (especially at work).

I made 2 discoveries recently (in a book about emotions)
1. Anger and rage are two different and opposite emotions
2. Emotion express a message: anger is the expression of the défense, rage is the expression of a frustration.

This is a discovery for me. What I used to describe as anger, was in fact a rage (of course it exists many différent level of intensity).

My rage happens during situation I am not confortable, and by the way I feel powerless, frustrated.

The rage is usually followed by the shame. The shame to overeact, to give pain to my self and others.

In fact I should intreprate rage as a signal to let it go, to find another strategy. And usually it is what I do, but to late, after rage and after shame.

With these 2 discoveries, I have decided to develop awareness about rage. Catch signal in time, to anticipate the émotional change, and take thé contrôle of the situation to avoid frustration (it can consist in let it go).

Basically it is the same approach than for any urge. This emotion is as normal as the others, but it requises skills to understand the message behind, and to avoid rage based behaviors.


Thank you for this. I can see how anger and rage are two different things and yeah, how I become rageful when I'm frustrated and want to get on top of things. For me at least there are more factors involved but it's an essential part, what you write about frustration. Again, thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:10 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 835
Location: Sweden
dnell wrote:
Hi Martin -

Thank you for the post and the both sides. I've done a lot of work on setting boundaries around my husband's anger and understanding my own.

Here's what I have learned. Anger is just another emotion. It's a sign that we need to attend to something and do something different. Where it trips us up is when we use it as a substitute to cover other emotions. It's easier to feel than fear. Better than hurt. So the first thing I think we need to do is take a breath, give ourselves a moment, and figure out what are the emotions under that anger. Are we feeling worthless? Ashamed? Hurt? Once we figure out what is really going on with us emotionally, then we have to do the hard work to address those underlying wounds.

Anger can also be addictive. Think of the rush of chemicals we feel. It's a relief after we blow off steam. My husband's anger was another way to manage his anxiety.

And, frankly, it can be rewarding, but only in the short term. My husband can shut me up and back me off with his anger. It works in the short term. But in the long term, it destroys relationships. The advice I've received is that if my husband doesn't learn to not rage at me is to get away from him. With radical honesty: the best way to deal with an angry man is to get away from an angry man.

We need to learn we have a choice in how to respond to our anger. It can feel outsize, but again, it's just an emotion. We do not have to be destructive in our expression of anger. But, it takes a while to learn this and I think we have to address the underlying wounds in order to not rage away. Otherwise we're just stuffing the anger down and that doesn't work either. So, if I lose control or my husband loses control of his anger, we must repair as soon as possible. Owning our anger. Apologizing for our impact. Addressing and understanding what was really going on with us. Not blaming and projecting.

I hope this is helpful.

dnell


Thank you, I agree. Reading your post after having read Bovary's really put things into perspective for me. Rage is my choice of action for feelings that can be handled in many different ways but which I choose to deal with through rage because it makes me feel good (temporarily) and because of underlying failures to cope with myself and my feelings. For me it's feelings of inadequacy, frustration, sadness, and vengefulness. I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:21 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 835
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Hi Martin

Hoppas att du fortfarande är ren
and hoping this translates as was meant
as you know and as others have said anger is just an emotion. you can and will deal with this as you proved that you could whilst recovering


Yes, am clean. I think my issue is that I didn't take the opportunity to fix the foundation of my life when I went through this workshop. Or I did but I didn't get deep enough and change the fundamentals. Still struggling with life, albeit not addiction.

Quote:
analysis is the place to start and you appear to have started on this already
however a few eyes wide open prompts might help, bin what is not useful
so
Quote:
I've always had an anger issue as long as I can remember
who or what are you angry with my guess yourself?


Yes, myself. I am the first one to turn on myself.

Quote:
Quote:
these issues have resurfaced again and especially so since I had a baby in the end of 2015.


your and your wife's lives have changed, you need to change accordingly,just as you both changed post D day, babies bring great love and joy but parenting is not easy
now you are three, and do remember that a common trait that we have/had is selfishness


I think that I did not/have not accepted that I am, 100 %, a father and must take responsibility. I did not actively use my values in my actions for most part of the 1,5 years of life that my daughter has had so for. I am doing so now and will continue to do so. She's not going away and nor would I want her to. I've seen her as a burden for large parts of her life and instead of speaking to others about this and accepting that my life had indeed changed, I've been resisting acceptance from within. I've stood on perhaps 1 or 2 values for stimulation and as the lessons say, a life cannot be built on 1 or 2 values.

Quote:
Quote:
I would still term it abusive behaviour
I agree hence boundaries are necessary and must be honoured

Quote:
I am going to start working on this issue again because it's destroying my marriage


Is it IT or is it You?
accept all responsibility


Boom! You hit the nail on head here. I agree, It's me and my behaviour, it's all my choices. There's no external entity called my anger issues, it's 100 %. My behaviour is not an it, my behaviour is mine.

Quote:
-
Quote:
Entitlement issues. I am very focused on myself and my own needs.
see above

-
Quote:
Trust issues. I don't trust people,
do you trust yourself and do you expect others to trust you, have / are you demonstrating signs of betraying trust?


I don't trust myself no. I've started to work on this now but I have little confidence in myself or the world. I know that this is a choice however so I've started making a choice to believe in myself and to let the world be.

Quote:
-
Quote:
Vengeful attitude
.
Martin reflect on those that you helped here on RN, vengeance is not your trait


What do you mean with this sentence?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:54 am 
Offline
Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3613
Location: UK
Hi Martin
hämnd
infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge:
I simply do not see you as that person, you have helped so many here in your time on RN, the two images conflict

however my friends, family indeed myself did not see me as the lying cheating addict, they, I we were so wrong

you are a good man with issues that you are aware of hence will deal with
hope that further explains

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:19 pm 
Offline
Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 835
Location: Sweden
Kenzo wrote:
Hi Martin
hämnd
infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge:
I simply do not see you as that person, you have helped so many here in your time on RN, the two images conflict

however my friends, family indeed myself did not see me as the lying cheating addict, they, I we were so wrong

you are a good man with issues that you are aware of hence will deal with
hope that further explains


The images conflict, I agree. But they are both true. I am a good person, I mean to do well and most often do, but I am prone to entitlement, frustration, rage as well.

At the same time, it's not a fifty fifty situation we are talking about. I am more often a kind, nice and helpful person. Still, I am not two persons. I am one and different sides of my personality are connected. I accept this and will work on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:10 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3613
Location: UK
Hi Martin

Quote:
I am one and different sides of my personality are connected. I accept this and will work on it.

I dont buy into this "two sides of a personality"
I believe that we have one personality that in some people, for example addicts, there are faults

Quote:
I accept this and will work on it.
:g:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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