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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
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Today my H was leaving for training in another city for 6 days. I've baked something nice for him and I went to put it in his bag. He insisted to put it himself and I had the feeling there is something he is hiding in the suitcase. I kept insisting he didn't fit it in properly and I tried to see what he was hiding. When I took out the pair of jeans, he grabbed it from my hand. For about 2 hours we've struggled fighting or begging him to show me what he's hiding. He invariably said it's nothing and why can't I just trust him. I swore to him that whatever it is, I will stand by him. He would not have it. In the end I threatened I will take my own life by morning. It was only then when he got a bit softer and eventually he showed me his closed fist and still claiming it's nothing that I could see a corner of a condom slightly sticking out. I showed him what I saw and I asked that he opens his fist to see how many there are. He still didn't want but said they were 4. So, my question is: Do you think I'm bound by my pledge to still give him another chance? I don't feel he volunteered anything and we spent almost 2 hours physically fighting but I cannot help but admit that he could have walked out, even when I threatened to take my own life. Don't ask me if I would have done it or not, he believed I might for a reason, all I can say I would have slept on it for long. I try to take my word seriously, even if he doesn't. I feel he did not really accept my offer of coming clean but I want to make sure I did not make the offer only to use the truth against him. I have to face the hard truth that he never had any intention of changing. I don't think he feels bad or that he is sorry, except for being caught. Nothing betrayed remorse and I don't feel he broke down at any point. Not that that would have been any guarantee for anything ... I just want to know you think I am bound to my word. Oh, he even gave me two different stories about the person he planned to engaged with, even after seeing the condoms. That's hardly volunteering anything. Still trying to minimise the harm done.
I want him to see this and see the people's opinion on whether I'm true to my values and my word or not. I cannot leave him immediately, still one year to graduation after which I intend to return to my country.
I appreciate the privilege of being on this forum.
Thank you.

PS I've always thought that if it proves that he is still doing these things after so long, after RN and even becoming a recovery mentor (he didn't really become involved after being named), I will be crushed. Well, I'm not. It hurts, yes, but I still have myself, my values and I still have a life that I can mould to the best of my abilities within the limits of reality. This is the result of my work on myself, on my connecting to my own being and always making sure I adjust my detachment to his doing the work and gaining the insights or not. I'm very glad I did not fall for his so-called transparency and I knew what changes I'm looking for in him. I am ok with myself.

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:14 pm 
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I've made up my mind, there will be no more chances. I think that would just be dangling a carrot and as we all know, nobody will ever change unless they want it desperately for themselves. I'm done with that. If anyone wants to still comment, feel free to do so but I'm pretty sure that this is what's the right thing to do for myself.
PS At least a few hours after the second Dday, even if you think you are coherent and you are making sense, chances are you are not. So, if you want to be rational, wait until the next day before you post. My bad :)

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
Posts: 656
Ursula - I am so sorry for what you are going through. It is so painful and you have worked so hard. Your husband is not healthy and not in active recovery and how painful for you to really know. He clearly is not sincere about recovery and health. This addiction...it seems if the addict is young they feel like they have so much time so they just don't have to give it up now, they can just do it later. And if they are older, it seems like it is just too late in life and not worth the effort.

What I was going to say in response to your first post is that you can change your mind anytime about what to do in the face of ongoing addiction, dishonesty and betrayal. It really is abuse. I think the focus continues to be putting yourself and your best interests first. If that means you need to stay in the marriage longer, than do so and do not feel bad about it. If that means it has become intolerable, then plan your exit carefully. If you stay, I find continued detachment is key. Detachment has been crucial to my well being.

With deep compassion,
dnell


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Thank you so much, dnell, your words are very wise and compassionate and I'll let them guide me through this stage of my life. Staying doesn't mean being part of the marriage farse anymore. I'm working on rigid boundaries which would assist me to focus on myself and my path only. I give him his freedom back, I hope it pays off for him. All I ever wanted was for him to choose and let me know as well. And so he chose and so I know what he's chosen. Now I'm free also. I'm working on a list of boundaries and protection mechanisms which I hope he will agree to. It's the least that he can do.
Thank you again for taking the time to have a kind word for an old friend. It means so much to me :w:

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3798
Location: UK
Hi Ursula
so sorry for what you are going through, even sorrier for the way that you discovered his insulting and abusive behaviour, but at least you now know for sure that he does not deserve you
As you know you have travelled too far to allow him and his deceit, disrespect and blatant stupidity to harm your healing and recovery

do ensure that you take care of yourself now and for the rest of your hopefully happy, peaceful satisfying and definitely healthy life

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Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:48 pm
Posts: 45
Hello Ursula,

You have been such a source of comfort and advice and support to so many of us on this forum. It is heartbreaking to read your post this morning, and wish to say to you that you deserve better... you are strong and smart and compassionate... channel those to yourself... I will carry you in my thoughts today and the next days... Take care of yourself...

To the recovered addicts, and those who are actively working with an honest intention, stay in the light...

To the addicts who are jerking their partners around, and abusing them, I have nothing to say....You know who you are...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
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Glad to see you sorted it out for yourself Ursula.

It sure is a hard question and one I think I've found myself get caught up in. Like yes, I should honor my word. How I've worked through that is to realize I have tried to operate honestly with a dishonest person who will mainly just use my honest intent against me.

ursula wrote:
PS I've always thought that if it proves that he is still doing these things after so long, after RN and even becoming a recovery mentor (he didn't really become involved after being named), I will be crushed. Well, I'm not. It hurts, yes, but I still have myself, my values and I still have a life that I can mould to the best of my abilities within the limits of reality. This is the result of my work on myself, on my connecting to my own being and always making sure I adjust my detachment to his doing the work and gaining the insights or not. I'm very glad I did not fall for his so-called transparency and I knew what changes I'm looking for in him. I am ok with myself.


I have found this true at every huge turn, thinking it would crush me and it didn't. It was just very painful sometimes and had fall out I had to deal with but I had the skills to deal with both. I'm sure you do too.

_________________

"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
Posts: 694
Thank you all so much.
I got so moved reading your kind words, I know the time has come to show what I'm made of. I will sort it out. I won't let this bring me to my knees. And yes, my honesty and my word will always be used against me. I'm done putting myself in harm's way. I just need to get out and get on with the rest of me. It hurts deeply but I have his image impregnated in my brain, a glimpse of who he is behind his masks. That I will never forget.
Thank you again. You brought tears in my eyes. Thank you all

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
Posts: 656
Ursula - I am so glad you feel the love and support of the RN community. You deserve it.

I've been thinking about something you said in a post:

Quote:
I'm working on a list of boundaries and protection mechanisms which I hope he will agree to.


What I have learned is that my boundaries are mine. They are not up to negotiation. My husband will either respect them or not. And, knowing our history, he'll say he agrees to them but that won't be honest and his behavior won't respect my boundaries. So I have found it doesn't matter whether or not my husband agrees or not. And, I can say what my boundaries are and it's not even certain he either listens or retains what I've said. And, in active addiction, I think the chances of respecting another's boundaries are close to zero. So when I gave up needing my husband to hear me; to understand me; and to respect my boundaries, my life became so much easier. I know my boundaries and I need to be clear what to do when they are violated. I think what is the more important is communicating what we will do if our boundaries are violated.

Emotional maturity means respecting your boundaries AND respecting those of others. I think it takes a while to develop these skills. Heck, I wasn't an addict and i was lousy at creating my own boundaries. For partners, then, I think we need to be very clear with ourselves what our boundaries are and what will happen if they are not respected. That is where I focus my time and energy. My husband isn't yet capable of defining HIS boundaries, let alone respecting mine, and he is in active recovery. IT just takes time.

With deep compassion,
dnell


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:38 pm
Posts: 515
Ursula, I am very sorry for this, for you.

For those who deeply value their own integrity, life lived with a person who is either addicted, or disordered, is a fire set to our very foundations.

Consistently our values are violated, trampled upon, disregarded. And yet, because we hold those values so dear, they may become our own stumbling blocks: do I honor my word? What is honesty? Does his behavior alter my own rules? If so, how and why?

Here, we may find comfort in examining situational ethics. Of course, the addict will use their own subjective view on situational ethics to protect their addictions.

We get caught between protecting ourselves, and honoring our integrity. Too, it can feel like so much has been robbed of us that we grasp tightly to our values as the final thing our pattners cannot take from us.

Yet, it can help to reexamine and re "prioritize" our values. They can and may change.

when we can begin to see our experiences through the lens of abuse -- regardless of our partner's motivations or addiction -- we may find it easier to make decisions that honor our safety and health.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
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Thank you both.
Dnell, some are personal boundaries which I need to make sure I do not violate, like not allow myself to have hope or believe his sweet minimising explanations (like this is the first time when he did it but yet again, I happen to catch it before it happened, even if last year he went for a month), restricting communication, etc. Some are demands for which I need his cooperation ... he has the money, the means, I have absolutely nothing and my family cannot support me. Plane tickets and transportation are high, not to mention living for a while before hopefully I can get a job. So, there are little consequences that I can put to these kind of things but he agreed to whatever I want within the limits of common sense, this is how he understands making amends.
Thank you, meepmeep, you are very right, of course. He however didn't even try to point to me giving my word. He just said he doesn't know if he's committed to quit, which actually means he knows he's not but the thought that he has not given up completely on the idea of recovery gives him some kind of comfort and makes him feel better. He doesn't seem very affected by all this and I feel that he doesn't necessarily want to drag me into this at all costs, like it used to be. Now he minimises everything and he found his coherence in old stories of recovery and seems to remember perfectly who it was he wanted to screw, even though he completely forgot when he got caught. Now he wants me to trap myself, if willing, he doesn't even pretend to want recovery that much. Even if I still hold dear the delusions and illusions of our life together, I know that giving him another chance under these circumstances will pretty much be like enabling his addiction. When he went he said something about working on this, going to therapy as I begged him countless times before but now there was no mention of anything, just that he is not committed but of course he wouldn't want me to go but he understands I have to.
So, not much to be said remains except that I appreciate his honesty around not really intending to stop, not taking any action except some vanilla version of abstinence, put up more or less for my eyes.
The saddest thing is, I don't really think he loves me, he probably never felt anything but infatuation. I think he was able to project himself in a part, the part of a husband who loves his wife and to a certain degree maybe he felt something through playing the part, like actors who cry on the scene at the mere thought of the story the embody. Now that the part is finished, he is detached, his old self again, and it really hurts thinking how he professed his love and appreciation for me and what I brought into his life. I guess it was a dream for him but now he woke up.
I will fight with all I have to be free from him. He can't offer me much anymore, not even the prior illusions and doubts, just my upkeep in return for being his front cover.
There are indeed no feelings there even if he can mime them so exquisitely when he wants to. Sad. Sad that it hurt me so much that I did not want to see.
Love to you all

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:33 pm
Posts: 96
Ursula, I signed on to post my own thing (which I will), but I stumbled upon your thread first. No, you do not owe him anything. It is so clear to me reading your post that -- like so many of us -- you have given this man more than enough chances to change his ways. I am so sorry for the pain that I know you are feeling. It is so hard to keep your wits about you in the face of the madness. Know that you are seeing this clearly and don't let your goodhearted nature be used against you. I wish you peace.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
Posts: 694
Thank you so much for your support, sp2007.
As always, I've got the best advice and support from the RN community. I still feel blessed to be part of this place, irrespective of the issues which brought me here. I will continue supporting others on their paths, to the best of my abilities.

I feel much better now, I've been in limbo trying to push a quick fix but I've reached out for advice and support and the best way is to stay where I am and build my future from here. I found tons of encouragement, excellent advice and people willing to lend a hand when/if I need one. Someone said to me to keep my head up and my eyes on the future and I feel that it's the only way to go. I've come up with a vision and a plan, even spotted some opportunities which I will explore further and I'm sure I will make it happen. My H was kind enough to assure me if his total support for as long as I need it and to allow me to still be part of the kids' life once I'm gone. I want to inspire them and support them in their lives, teach them that they have the power to turn things around. As far as I'm concerned it's all water under the bridge, I don't want to hold grudges and I will protect myself from ever mustering any hope about any developments on his side. That is really none of my business anymore. My future and the path to get where I want is my only concern.
Now back to the books, exams fast approaching!
Thank you, RN!

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:20 am
Posts: 131
Ursula,
Your first post alarmed me, your second post calmed me, and all of the posts that followed confirmed that RN is a 'family' of others who care very much and share in your struggles!! Ursula, your unwavering faith in this program and mentoring others has brought me back time and again to read these threads when I have felt sad or confused or angry at the mess of a life I seem to be in, and without exception I have seen a post or comment by you to encourage others on their path.
It is so heartwarming to see you work out your own struggle right before my eyes and with the help of many others who care about you! Just.......... Wow!!
There is a Christopher Robin quote that reminds me of you today, "Always remember, you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, smarter than you think, and twice as beautiful as you ever imagined!!!!"

Blessings,
Kajer

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It is always OK in the end...if it's not OK, it's not the end!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
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Dear Kajer,
Your words feel like the best medicine for my wounds.
I do have unwavering faith in this programme. It worked wonders for me. It clicked, I've changed enormously. I still make mistakes and fall back on old coping mechanisms (like a very strong impulse to run away and spare myself the extra pain and hardship instead of dealing maturely with all of this and building inner strength), but I've changed in how I see life, myself and what's worth pursuing. RN taught me what a vision is and that's really what saves and empowers me today. Without a clear vision and goals I would have felt so hopeless and vulnerable to ongoing abuse. But I don't have to choose that path anymore, I have alternatives and they fill me up with hope and resilience. I've put pictures of the city I eventually want to move to on my phone, I look at it and I smile. That's where I'm going, that's what I'm fighting for ... a chance to be in a safe place, on my own two feet, surrounded by people who care and whom I care about.
I hope my struggles inspire others how other wonderful partners inspired me. Even as partners we have a choice, always! As we like to say on the recovery side, choose wisely!
Kisses and hugs!

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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