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 Post subject: Polygraph question help
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 1:42 pm
Posts: 352
Hello friends. Some of you know me. I've been on and off RN since 1492. Not a typo, that's how it feels and I'm back again. After the proverbial worst D-Day ever (according to him), the one that would never ever never ever repeat....here we are. As suspected from my last post, he's been acting out again, although the porn is definitely diminished. It's the lying, MB, and avoidance of intimacy that is the current issue.

After wrestling with myself as to what new and improved approach I wanted to take, I decided on the formal disclosure with a polygraph to verify. This would not be the first time and just like the last time, he lied on the disclosure. Take 2. Now supposedly everything is on the disclosure and the polygraph is booked and paid for. Another $425. I don't add up all the therapists, polygraphs, missed work, shoe shopping, and other assorted addiction expenses because of this lunacy. I think it's enough for two round-trip tickets to Paris and a few weeks at The Four Seasons with daily room service. I'd prefer Paris but since that's not an option and another poly is what should I ask?

The basics.
1. Are you holding back anything that should be on your most current disclosure?
2. Have you had any inner circle behavior you have not disclosed since the disclosure?

It kills me to spend $425 for two questions and I actually believe he's telling the truth but the only reason is the pending polygraph. I also need him to know I am serious about broken boundary consequences. I'd love to ask if he's really sexually attracted to me. Does he fantasize about other women during sex with me? Apparently, only yes or no questions that are based on fact are considered appropriate. I don't' see why? Can't both my left of center questions be answered with a yes or a no?

If you think of anything that would be helpful, I'd be grateful. I need to send questions by end of day tomorrow.

Thank you, ladies.
P.S. For you new "club" members....the 'cured" ratio is 5%. Let that sink in. I've been at this for 10 years and counting.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
Posts: 659
Violet - I'm so sorry. But I am relieved you are taking this step to take care of yourself.

I have not yet done the polygraph. I'm not an expert, by any means, but here's what I have learned.

It's an effective tool for us to learn certain things we suspected. For example, "Did you have sex with X?" Anything we are suspicious about that we want to know, that is more fact based, can be addressed. My understanding is that it is not effective at "Do you fantasize about other women when you have sex with me?" Every woman I know wants to ask that question, including me, which breaks my heart. But, honestly...I already know the answer. The answer is, he ALWAYS fantasized about other women since he feared relational sex and intimacy and ran away. We can FEEL the lack of connection. The closed eyes, or the glazed over eye look, the lack of loving words, the self-centered approach. We already know. So, it's more granular in terms of behavior, time, people.

I also understand it's really an accountability tool for honesty. As in drug addicts taking urine tests, sex addicts do polygraphs to help them stay honest. Does that suck that they have to do this? Absolutely. My understanding is it is supposed to teach them to be honest and to learn that they won't die if they are honest.

I do not think it will help you solve the intimacy issue.

I see so many partners stuck on this issue: the partner seems sober, not sober, partially sober...but no emotional connection. No true sexual intimacy. My belief is that the wounds that caused this intimacy anorexia or aversion or so deep that skilled therapy is needed to address them. It takes a long time.

Violet, what it is that you need to know? You know he is not telling the truth and you don't feel the connection you need. I'm so sorry. I think the best focus now is on you and your life. What will you do? How do you get joy and meaning in your life? Do you stay or go? How do you do that well?

None of this is easy, as we all know. It's not fair. My husband's journey to sobriety AND health is long and hard. Waiting for him to recover and then become healthy....the waiting can be a form of suffering unless we find a different way to live. Believe me I know how hard this is.

With deep compassion,
dnell


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 1:42 pm
Posts: 352
Dnell,if this was an Olympic sport, I'd bring home the gold. I've done years of therapy, RN, read everything under the sun and now I'm doing hypnosis (which is actually helping and fascinating). I've learned to take care of me and I have a healthy circle of friends, family, and a dharma I love. As fabulous as all that is, I don't have the one thing, the reason we choose to be in a committed partnership. None of us do.

The to stay or go is the million dollar questions. I have a giant whiteboard and the pro/con list changes more than my grocery list. Depends on how my work is going or not going. Depends on whether I view the anti-depressant I now take as a blessing or a curse.

I understand this as long as one stays in the marriage, addiction will always be with us. It doesn't get better. Addiction can be managed and as long as it's managed, it's can be in remission. Get complacent and it's back. I believe that although what he does isn't within my control the fact that I'm so uncomfortable about intimacy now is why this latest episode went on as long as it did. He was avoiding sex and I didn't push. Avoiding intimacy really is the Hallmark card of acting out. I should have known....Now on my way to getting an honorary Ph.D. in sex addiction, I know that as much as we'd like to believe our work is ours and theirs is theirs-it just isn't true. Not for us anyway.

He's currently out of the house (more money) for a 30-day therapeutic reset. It's good for both of us. Keeps me in my better place and lattes in cups where they belong instead of his face. :s:

Love you.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:08 am
Posts: 190
Violet, I’m so sorry you are stuck on that crazy merry-go-round. Sadly many of us waving manically and desperately trying not to drown. Most of us, I would say.

I listened to a podcast about using a polygraph
http://www.ashlynnandcoby.com/podcast/2018/3/4/ep-49-lie-detector-test-good-idea-or-not

Or alternatively you can find it on iTunes podcasts
The Betrayed, The Addicted, The Expert episode date 5 March 2018

I hope you find this podcast of some value in your situation.

The intimacy disorder aspect of sex/porn addiction is really at the root of the problem. Although my husband was definitely predisposed I actually believe that his addictive behaviours exacerbated his difficulties with intimacy. He can’t really connect either. There’s little or no eye contact, very little verbal communication, an almost functional approach to sex, I show up and he’s either interested or not. It kills the soul. I feel like a sex worker and he’s showing up for a pre-booked session.

Yes, the lack of physical intimacy – check; low libido – check; erectile dysfunction – check. Oh, I wonder why that could be? He never asks me about how I feel about sex, or if it’s something I might want. Never. If we discuss anything related to sex, with very rare exceptions, I have had to initiate the conversation every time. I’m at the point where I either give up altogether and fall into his pattern of no expressed desire for sexual contact – in which case my sexuality is expressed outside of our partnership - or I keep trying to open up the channels of communication and keep trying. I’ve spent a small
fortune on recovery books including books on erotic intelligence and cultivating a better and more imaginative sex life. The result? I’m met with inertia. I’ve suggested a few ideas but he nixed them every time. So I’m buying one more book, I’m trying one more approach and if I get nowhere then it’s time to give up on my husband as a sexual partner.

BTW, I don’t mean I’m going to be unfaithful or take a lover. My biggest love affair is going to be with me. I can make love to myself like I’d have a lover do. I can dress as sexy as I’d like, I can be butt naked and I wouldn’t need to worry whether he “likes it”. I didn’t want this outcome but for all intents and purposes I’m back to where I was before d day, in a sexless marriage with a man who doesn’t show any interest in me. I went through all that, and for what?

I don’t know what the answer is with regard to the intimacy issue. My husband wanted the opportunity to fix the relationship but he threw it away when he started masturnating again. He didn’t have a healthy relationship with masturbation to begin with so obviously it meant secrecy and lying, avoiding sex, and very probably playing around the edges of pornography by viewing the softcore stuff like lingerie pix etc. Interestingly, when I became orgasmic again, that was when he fell back into masturbation and distancing himself from me. It’s like my sexuality is a threat to him.

I sympathise with your predicament, Violet. Unfortunately there’s not a lot we can do. We can’t make these guys do anything and they won’t. I don’t know about your partner , but my husband won’t do anything he doesn’t want to. He’s like a moody teenager refusing to do what’s asked of him. It’s very immature but I suspect that’s the exact point where they are stuck.

Good luck with the polygraph b


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:35 am
Posts: 1126
Hi Violet,
So sorry we're both back here. You joined RN a year after me. I can't help wondering where my life might be now had I left after the big D day. Would I have gone on to make more bad decisions? The last 10 yrs or so have been a huge learning curve - work in progress - and I have been able to understand how the influences in my early life with my parents impacted on my decisions as a young adult. Without the insight I have gained I know I would have found it difficult to go on and make 'healthier' choices. I don't know whether my husband still acts out in any way and my level of detachment from him means that I don't really care. I do know that he's not changed at core level as he still fixates if he thinks I don't notice and he leers! Lord it turns my stomach. We no longer go on holiday together, we may have a couple of days away just for a change of scenery but I won't tolerate his bad behaviour when he's out with me so it makes our options limited. He can please himself when I'm not around, and I've no doubt that he does. I do more on my own these days but when I go to beautiful places I long for someone to share the experiences with me. Even after all this time I can't get my head around his lack of maturity or his lack of understanding how shameful his behaviour is.

As fabulous as all that is, I don't have the one thing, the reason we choose to be in a committed partnership. None of us do.

And sadly isn't that the truth.
My best wishes to you Violet.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
Posts: 659
Violet, I fear I have offended you. What I wanted to convey was my belief that what you are so reasonably asking of your husband and not getting won't be solved by a polygraph.

My husband as well for all my time with him did what he wanted whenever he wanted. At the same time he complained about being pushed around and "controlled" by me. And of course, to him, I was an obstacle to his acting out. All of this was a lie and way to protect his addiction. And I agree the addiction made his intimacy disorder worse. It consumed him and stunted him from so much. He didn't learn. He was stuck at a childish way of coping with his life and the progressing addiction eroded any of the skills he had. He didn't grow emotionally or intellectually. He lost interest in anything but looking at naked women, masturbating, fantasizing, flirting and "searching" for the perfect porn picture, the perfect waitress, the "perfect one" who he knew was out there for him. He didn't have hobbies or friends or activities that meant anything to him. And he certainly didn't care about me. He cared about what I did for him, but he didn't give a fig about me or my well being. That's my harsh reality. And all of this was wrapped up in lies and gaslighting where he insisted that he loved me and desired me and I was the problem. And he convinced others of this and they gaslighted me as well. Of course this had an impact on me. It wounded me. I am traumatized. Just as all of us are.

For me to think my husband will somehow make this all better....that's just more suffering. Waiting for my husband to recover, waiting for him to learn adult relational skills, that can be a form of suffering. It leaves me with the reality that I am the one who has to help myself end my suffering. I can't change my husband. Ever. I can only change myself.

i can't change the past and like all of us, I regret my decisions. But remember, none of knew the reality of our situations. I was desperately trying to make things work, for way, way, way too long. But I forgive myself for my lack of awareness. My husband was a master liar and manipulator. He did not want me to know reality and he worked very hard at keeping me in the dark. This was conscious, deliberate and relentless. I regret my decisions. More importantly, I grieve my losses. I will never get back my youth. I will never have had a loving and passionate marriage. Can I find it now, at my age, and based on my trauma? Maybe. With my husband? That's a long shot. A very risky proposition. I don't have it now and while my husband has made dramatic changes, he rejects any bid for emotional connection. He did it just again this morning when I offered something to make our lives easier and he flips off hurtful remarks and then rejects me. I'm so tired of it and surprised it can still hurt, to be honest.

So either we have to wait or we have to leave. What other choices do we have? There are so many understandable and reasonable reasons to stay in our sexless/loveless marriages and I won't fault any of us if we choose to do so. But then we must find a way to protect ourselves from further hurt and to try to live our lives as well as possible. Only I can do that by focusing on me.

dnell


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 1:42 pm
Posts: 352
Dnell, I am absolutely not offended! I totally get that a polygraph only gives a snapshot that can change in a moment. For me, having a place in time to confirm I'm not crazy is worth it. A polygraph for him confirms me and my wise mind know exactly what's going on!

The best thing I've recently learned (still a long long way until I master it) is the more I let go of what I can't control, the better I feel. I've also been doing hypnosis. I go to some amazing places and learn the highest of wisdom, which although wonderous is difficult to channel when he's trying not to look down the waitresses top. However, it's worthy work. My latest epiphany? If the partner is getting enough needs met by the addict, and if it wasn't for the addiction part, being a couple with this person feels good, then stay. That's my deal. There's enough there to stay AS long as there is forward progress. This is true unless a guy on a white horse that has never heard of the internet knocks on my door.

In these types of relationships, the tough part is feeling healed enough to interact sexually with the addict so one is getting a very basic and enjoyable need met but the hardest thing for me to do. So how am I climbing over the Great Wall of China (that's what it feels like) I lost the victim mentality (highly advise), do ego work constantly (this isn't about me, he wasn't being willfully stupid etc) and feel in the most sacred part, my forever soul part that this is but a blink of a lifetime and to waste it is both tragic and nothing all at the same time.

Being with an SA is excellent for the philosophical part of the brain. What all of this does is puts the focus on me. The only part of the puzzle I can control. The part that loves me for taking care of her? Grateful, very very grateful. It's huge to make sure your scared, tired, hurt and angry self, knows without any doubt that your wise mind has her back.


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