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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:59 am 
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My H and I have been having an on-going conversation about his need for control for some time now, and he has recently brought it to his community forum under another thread, but plans to start a new thread just to address control.

Many of the partners deal with passive aggressive men whose need for control plays a big role in their SA behavior. Rather than the huband who demands sexual activity from his wife as he acts out with other women or turns to internet porn, the passive aggressive husband tends to be distant, cold, and not sexually active with his wife. My H lied to me about being impotent for three years while he actively pursued a sex life outside of our marriage. Other women on RN have experience much of the same.

I came to see his passive aggressive need for control as preceeding his SA and perhaps being driven by it somewhat.

I hope you can address this topic in your workbook.

Thanks.

Nellie James


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:08 pm 
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Nellie, this is very interesting and makes me sad, too. My SO claims he's impotent, too. He takes a lot of medications (OCD, ADD) that affect sex drive (or so says his doctor, too), so I chalk it up to that.

He's definitely passive-aggressive. We have absolutely no sex and we never have. (Like I've said in other posts, he blames it on me and the way I look.) I don't think he's cheating with "real women", but I know that, if he hasn't actually done it, he's come close with online women. (He got letters from a woman who said he answered her ad and she saw HIS ad! (I had a gut feeling and I opened the letter before he got it.) I've seen in his history where he's bookmarked virtual sites and machines where he can have "real touch" sex with women on webcams). Anyways, your post makes me wonder: is he really impotent or is it all a lie?

Just a question probably only he can answer.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:07 pm 
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Just this week my H had an interesting discussion with his couselor about a triangular cycle of behavior that he was caught up in. The points on the triangle are: victim based on feeling persecuted, persecutor, and rescuer (who then feels victimized after being the rescuer). It seems that my H's initial pursuit of SA came out of that triangle - he felt victimized by me (which was actually mother transference), and also victimized by his job so he persecuted me in a way, though secret, his SA was a form of punishment to me. This escalated to his pretense of impotence - another form of his persecuting me. Over time his interest in real live bodies and relationships became his main focus along with some oggling and cybersex. As long as he had a "girl" tucked away he needed less computer generated sex and less oggling. During this entire time he still proclaimed to be impotent. However, I did seduce him one night only to have him push me away in disgust. When he knew that I knew the truth, it didn't deter his SA activities - in fact they escalated. He needed to be angry and continue to punish me. Very bizarre. By then he was so out of control that his behavior became normal to him.

In retrospect, I think his twisted thinking allowed him to rationalize his behavior as being acceptable because he was in the victim mode wanting to retaliate. Really sad and sick.

We had a long talk about this after his counseling session. This explaination, though very hard to hear, validates what I was feeling during his secret acting out as well as his early behavior toward me after DDay. I knew I wasn't crazy. Feels good to hear an explaination that makes sense to me.

Nellie James


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 Post subject: yes I recognise this
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:17 am 
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So useful to read this. My H does not claim to be impotent, but claims he has a 'low sex drive' and usually that he is 'too tired' and has 'too much work'. Meantime masturbating to porn like mad, often within hours of having turned me down. I actually put it to him that I am in a non-consensual BDSM relationship where he plays a 'scene' of withholding sex from me ( since these are the kinds of BDSM vids he loves.)

Yes, he expresses feelings of being persecuted by me (esp when I suggest he goes to therapy, terribly persecuting, that!) But thinks I am nuts to suggest that there is a power play going on. but that is totally my experience. It was crazy-making for me until I found RN and started trusting my feelings again, instead of trying to believe him.

And reading this thread helps, too


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Where is he in all this in terms of recognizing his behavior? Is he in any kind of recovery program or counseling or is he in total denial?

I am glad you are doing RN, honoring your gut feelings, and learning to understand his behavior for what it it is. :g:

Take good care of yourself today and always. :w:

Nellie James


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 Post subject: where he is at
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:05 am 
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He started RN then dropped it. !D

Because it doesn't really apply to him :s: Because he doesn't have any addictions other than smoking! (or maybe because a coach suggested that he start his first few excercises over and do them properly this time? He has real problems with 'authority' which i think is also part of the control issues)

Anybody else see this authority/control connection?


But he's finally maybe going to go to a psychologist to help with the smoking (because he's starting to get physical pain and has tried everything else) so i'm holding thumbs that more gets going. holding thumbs but not my breath.

I'm continuing my healing workshop to the end before i make final decisions.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 am 
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:g: :g: :g: Glad to hear that your own healing is your priority.

Nellie James


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 Post subject: saviour complex
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Yes, thanks Nellie, my own healing is now my priority. I used to have sort of a saviour complex - this romantic idea of being able to create somebody else's healing. I am SO cured of that now, so I guess he has ironically done me a favour!

Who knows maybe I needed to pour my all into a black hole for seven years to finally 'get' that each person has to make their own choice, and that nothing NOTHING can change that.

I still hope he does make that choice, and I do believe that if he does, THEN my support can make a real difference (though not do it FOR him).

It sounds like your man is really exploring and grabbing the opportunity. Not a comfortable trip for either of you I'm sure, but really valuable. Good on you both! :g: Hope it all goes forward for you.

Just curious if your man had any bdsm stuff, since I've kindof assumed that's all tied up (excuse pun :s: ) with the control issues with my H


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:51 am 
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I'm not good at cyber short hand - please give me more info regarding your question about bdsm. :s: I'm old you know. :s:

Nellie


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:19 pm 
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nellie I had to look this up onetime Wikipedia -BDSM is a type of roleplay or lifestyle choice between two or more individuals who use their experiences of pain and power to create sexual tension, pleasure, and release. The compound acronym, BDSM, is derived from the terms bondage and discipline (B&D, B/D, or BD), dominance and submission (D&s, D/s, or Ds), sadism and masochism (S&M, S/M, or SM).[1]

katt


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 Post subject: bdsm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:01 am 
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sorry, my assumption that it's known.

In my H's case though it's not a lifestyle choice nor does it involve 2 individuals. It's about porn images and videos that show women in very disempowered uncomfortable or downright painful positions, and also involves the concept of not allowing her any sexual pleasure. I wont go into details since some of the stuff was very disturbing for me (not at all the public perception bdsm idea of a woman in stilletoes getting a friendly spanking) if you haven't had to tackle it anyway, i don't want to further pollute your minds

But basically I was wondering about forms of sexual expression that directly involve control issues explicitly: like tying up, punishing, taunting but witholding sex, etc. Sometimes the man is the tortured one. It seems to me that would be likely to go with passive aggression and control issues and was wondering if its just my H


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:18 am 
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Hmmm. :pe: You know - I really don't know if his cybersex included this. From what I saw, he was into young women the most - like college girls, skinny models, actresses and some yucky artsy stuff too. When I asked him what was the worst thing he looked at, he described some nasty stuff and said that was when he was shocked and disgusted and turned off the computer. His usual ritual was to begin soft and keep clicking links that refined his choices to worse versions of what he liked. He has always remained in a "cloud" of sorts about this which is his style about anything uncomfortable to him. I know him well - now.

I'm not sure about bondage, role playing, and don't know if it matters to me at this point. The issue of control during our sex did come up early after DDay - he did seemto be more physically controlling and that wasn't his norm before SA. I objected to it and brought it up in counseling, but we never pursued it. :pe: I feel that it took him time to get back to a healthy intimate sexual relationship with me on a consistent basis. We had our wonderful moments but we also had times of tension and performance anxiety on his part and on mine. We are doing great now. :w:

Guess I got a bit carried away, but that's OK.

Back to the issue of control - I think passive aggressive behavior as it applies to sexual intimacy is more an about fear of intimacy and enjoying sex the way they like it which can take many forms. My H's control was also about his denying me sex to the point where he lied about being impotent and secretly began masterbating along with his other SA activities. This played right into his fantasy world. He lied to me for three years claiming impotency, and when I did seduce him, he pushed me away in contempt. :no: That was a few months before DDay and really was the wakeup call I needed. My "outing" him didn't slow him down a bit - in fact, I think he enjoyed the fact that he was still getting away with his secret world - very weird but typical irrational SA thinking.

Well, now I think I have told you what I know...hope it gives you some insights that you can use.

Nellie James :sat:


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 Post subject: insight
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:54 pm 
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" I think passive aggressive behavior as it applies to sexual intimacy is more about fear of intimacy"

Yes. That certainly makes sense. Applying that to my own situation I think that for my H, tying a woman up is one way to avoid being intimate and objectify her, and having her turned into a picture, is another, and both together is even better.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:37 am 
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Quote:
Yes. That certainly makes sense. Applying that to my own situation I think that for my H, tying a woman up is one way to avoid being intimate and objectify her, and having her turned into a picture, is another, and both together is even better.


Could be. I never thought of it that way. Almost like a drama of sorts with you cast in a particular role which he determines. Many of us have played roles in our husbands duality. I was the "good wife" who completed his public image. !D I had no role in his sex life - that was the way he controlled me in that area.

I do feel it helps us better understand what we have been dealing with in order to better understand his particular style of SA - awareness is good.
Just remember your goal is to heal yourself - keep the focus on you, your vision, and your values. I think you know what I mean. :w:

Take care.

Nellie James


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 Post subject: Yes, Nellie!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:30 pm 
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"Almost like a drama of sorts with you cast in a particular role which he determines."

YES! that's it in a nutshell. Thanks for helping that picture get clear for me :g:


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