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 Post subject: jond's recovery thread*
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:01 am 
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1. I am commited to making a positive change in my life. I realize I cannot continue as I have in the past and I do not believe I will survive as a person if I do not make this change.

2. I will not allow guilt or shame to sabotage me or my recovery. When I feel either of these I will focus on the reasons I am doing this, namely I desire to break free from this problem and I desire a better life.

3. I will take the time I need to fully understand myself and my recovery.


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 Post subject: Reasons I want to change
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:22 am 
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1. I can't continue like this.
2. I am tired of hiding
3. I am tired of feeling guilty
4. I am tired of feeling shame
5. I want a normal life
6. I am tired of hurting myself.
7. I am tired of hurting thos I love
8. I want to be able to have sex without anxiety
9. I am tired of living in fear
10. I need intimacy in my life and porn destroys it
11. I want to have self esteem
12. I want to be a better person.
13. I want to feel passion in my life and porn destroys it
... more later as I think of them


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:55 am 
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Posts: 4572
re: "I do not believe I will survive as a person if I do not make this change"

That is a pretty powerful statement. Unfortunately, unless you are able to extract ongoing value from it, it will serve little for motivation in about a week.

re: "motivators"

Go back and read the part of Lesson One that refers to 'assessing your motivation for change'...then assess the motivators that you have listed here. Which ones are capable of sustaining change? Which ones aren't? Do you know why they aren't? What will you replace them with?

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 Post subject: Personal vision
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:33 am 
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Passion
I want to be passionate about what is in my life. I want to be passionate with my wife, not just sexually but in all parts of our life together. She has a wonderful soul that doesn't shine as brightly as it did. I love her deeply and want to commit myself fully to her. I want to be passionate about my daughter and helping her make her way in the world. I need to be passionate about my work. I enjoy my career but don't feel passionate about it.

Intimacy
My wife and I have not had a truly intimate relationship on all levels. We have intimacy in some areas at certain times but not in all areas all the time. While we are working on this it is me who need the most help in this area. My daughter need to be shown that it is not only ok to be intimate but is something to be expected in a deep loving relationship. I also need to reconnect with my extended family and develop better relationships with them as well. I don't really have any close intimate friends at the moment but need to develop some.

Preparation
Life is full of surprises and being prepared emotionally, spiritually and physically will help in dealing with any surprises. It will also help in dealing with the stress and anxiety that go with daily living. Preparing my daughter for lifes up and downs and giving her the ability to make her way in the world.

Living fully
'Live each day as though it were your last'. I had never really understood this before but I think I am beginnign to. For me it means that each day you must treasure what you have as well as the opportunity to live another day.

Compassion
Compassion for others as well as myself. I can be very hard on myself, especially if I feel I have committed a wrong. Letting go of this will go a long way towards my recovery. Admitting when I am wrong and promptly trying to right the wrong. Compassion for my wife by remembering that my actions have an affect on her. Compassion for my daughter, remembering what it was like to be a kid and the sheer joy that you can feel by simply playing onteh mponkey bars after school.

Confidence
Confidence that I make the right choice and that if I make a wrong choice that I can correct the problem. My wife's confidence has been severely affected by my choices and I would like to help restore some of that confidence. Building my daughters confidence so that whatever life thorws at her she will feel safe and sure of herself and her ability to handle it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:51 am 
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[quote="CoachJon"]re: "I do not believe I will survive as a person if I do not make this change"

That is a pretty powerful statement. Unfortunately, unless you are able to extract ongoing value from it, it will serve little for motivation in about a week.

Thank you for the feedback.

What I am trying to say is that I want to make this change because what I have been doing goes against what I believe are fundamental beliefs that I hold. (honest, truthful, nice)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:10 am 
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Posts: 126
re: "motivators"

Go back and read the part of Lesson One that refers to 'assessing your motivation for change'...then assess the motivators that you have listed here. Which ones are capable of sustaining change? Which ones aren't? Do you know why they aren't? What will you replace them with?[/quote]

I feel these are cpable of helping me sustain my changes
5. I want a normal life 3
8. I want to be able to have sex without anxiety 3
10. I need intimacy in my life and porn destroys it 3
11. I want to have self esteem 3
12. I want to be a better person 3
13. I want to feel passion in my life 3

These ones aren't because they are based on the consequences of my porn use. They are followed by updated versions that I think make them more in linbe with my not wanting to live like this any more

1. I can't continue like this -> I want to break free of this behaviour
2. I am tired of hiding -> Hiding my porn use blocks my way to intimacy
3. I am tired of feeling guilty -> Guilt makes me want to hide
4. I am tired of feeling shame -> Shame also make me want to hide
6. I am tired of hurting myself. - > I need to heal
7. I am tired of hurting those I love -> I want to be a model for those I love
9. I am tired of living in fear -> I can live my life without fear


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:42 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
Values

1.Live with compassion
2.Live with integrity
3.Be passionate about what is in my life
4.Be passionate with my wife
5.Be loving to my wife
6.Be committed to my wife
7.Be a good husband
8.Be passionate about my daughter
9.Be a loving father to my daughter
10.Be a good father to my daughter
11.Be intimate with my daughter
12.Be intimate with my extended family
13.Be a better brother
14.Be a better son
15.Be passionate about my career
16.Be intimate with my wife
17.Be intimate with my daughter
18.Show my daughter it is ok to be intimate
19.Be truthful with myself
20.Be truthful in all my interaction with people
21.Prepare myself for lifes ups and downs
22.Prepare myself spiritually
23.Prepare myself physically
24.Prepare myself mentally
25.Deal well with stress
26.Deal well with anxiety
27.Prepare my daughter for life
28.Bring joy into my family's life
29.Bring joy to my wife's life
30.Bring joy to my daughter's life
31.Embrace joy in my life
32.Live life each day
33.Treasure that which I have
34.Treasure my wife
35.Treasure my daughter
36.Treasure my family
37.Have a positive outlook on life each day
38.Develop my compassioniate side
39.Show compassion for others
40.Show compasison for my wife
41.Show compassion for my daughter
42.Show compasison for myself
43.Remember what it is like to be a kid
44.Admit when I am wrong
45.Try to fix any wrong I commit
46.Remember that all my actions have consequences
47.Forgive myself if I have done wrong
48.Forgive others if they commit a wrong against me
49.Develop my self confidence
50.Develop my ability to make the right choice
51.Nurture my wife's confidence
52.Nurture my daughter's confidence
53.Be dependable
54.Keep my sense of humour
55.Be true to myself and my values
56.Be a role model for my family
57.Be humble
58.Be faithful
59.Keep my integrity
60.Practice self discipline
61.Develop my ability to communicate my feelings
62.Share my feelings wife my wife
63.Share my feelings wife my daughter
64.Understand myself
65.Try to understand others
66.Respect others and their beliefs
67.Be warm and friendly
68.Develop friendships
69.Live well
70.Develop sustainable practices in my life
71.Overcome personal struggles
72.Nurture my daughter creatively
73.Be honest
74.Be truthful
75.Be generous
76.Be kind
77.Show appreciation of effort from others
Dark side
78.Hiding is acceptable
79.Fear is a motivator
80.Lying is ok if no one finds the truth
81.Secrets must be kept
82.no one can know the real me
83.I can have two lives


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:31 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
Values

1.Live with integrity
2.Live with compassion
3.Remember that all my actions have consequences
4.Be a role model for my family
5.Be humble
6.Be faithful
7.Be honest
8.Be truthful
9.Be generous
10.Be kind
11.Keep my integrity
12.Be loving to my wife
13.Be committed to my wife
14.Be a good husband
15.Be passionate with my wife
16.Be passionate about my daughter
17.Be a loving father to my daughter
18.Be a good father to my daughter
19.Be intimate with my wife
20.Be intimate with my daughter
21.Be intimate with my extended family
22.Show my daughter it is ok to be intimate
23.Be truthful with myself
24.Be truthful in all my interaction with people
25.Admit when I am wrong
26.Try to fix any wrong I commit
27.Be passionate about what is in my life
28.Be a better brother
29.Be a better son
30.Be passionate about my career
31.Bring joy into my family's life
32.Bring joy to my wife's life
33.Bring joy to my daughter's life
34.Embrace joy in my life
35.Prepare myself for lifes ups and downs
36.Prepare myself spiritually
37.Prepare myself physically
38.Prepare myself mentally
39.Prepare my daughter for life
40.Deal well with stress
41.Deal well with anxiety
42.Develop my self confidence
43.Develop my ability to make the right choice
44.Live life each day
45.Treasure that which I have
46.Treasure my wife
47.Treasure my daughter
48.Treasure my family
49.Have a positive outlook on life each day
50.Develop my compassioniate side
51.Show compassion for others
52.Show compasison for my wife
53.Show compassion for my daughter
54.Show compasison for myself
55.Remember what it is like to be a kid
56.Forgive myself if I have done wrong
57.Forgive others if they commit a wrong against me
58.Nurture my wife's confidence
59.Nurture my daughter's confidence
60.Be dependable
61.Keep my sense of humour
62.Be true to myself and my values
63.Practice self discipline
64.Develop my ability to communicate my feelings
65.Share my feelings wife my wife
66.Share my feelings wife my daughter
67.Understand myself
68.Try to understand others
69.Respect others and their beliefs
70.Be warm and friendly
71.Develop friendships
72.Live well
73.Develop sustainable practices in my life
74.Overcome personal struggles
75.Nurture my daughter creatively
76.Show appreciation of effort from others


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 Post subject: Incongruent Values
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:09 am 
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Recovery Mentor

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
1.Live with integrity
2.Be passionate about what is in my life
3.Remember that all my actions have consequences
4.Be loving to my wife
5.Be committed to my wife
6.Be a good husband
7.Be passionate with my wife
8.Be passionate about my daughter
9.Be a good father to my daughter
10.Be a role model for my family
11.Be humble
12.Be faithful
13.Be honest
14.Be truthful
15.Be generous


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:19 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
Be a good husband
Tell her that I love her every day
Listen to her when she is talking to me
Try to understand how she is feeling
Talk to her about how I am feeling
Show her daily that I love her

Be a good father to my daughter
Spend time with her each day
Help her when she needs help
Support her when she is trying something new
Tell her every day that I love her

Be a role model for my family
Lead by example
Get involved with the community
Spend time with my family
Put the family first


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
1 Live with integrity
1.1 Consider every action
1.2 Remember my values and apply them
1.3 Ask myself 'Is this the right thing to do'
1.4 Consider others when I make choices
1.5 Remember that all my actions have consequences
2 Live with compassion
2.1 Respect others
2.2 Give freely of myself when needed
3 Be passionate about what is in my life
3.1 I have many blessings in my life (wife, family, health)
3.2 You get out of life what you put in
4 Be loving to my wife
4.1 Take time each day to make her feel special
4.1.1 Simple gestures (flowers, note in lunch)
4.2 Be affectionate with her
4.2.1 Snuggle with her
4.2.2 Touch her
4.2.3 Kiss
4.3 Talk to her
4.3.1 Tell her how I feel
4.3.2 Ask her how she feels
4.4 Express my emotions without fear
4.4.1 Tell her when I feel good
4.4.2 Tell her when I feel not so good
4.4.3 Let her know when my moods are affected
4.5 Support her when she needs it
4.6 Be committed to her
4.7 Be passionate with my wife
4.7.1 Show her the emotions I am feeling
5 Be a better husband to my wife
5.1 Tell her that I love her every day
5.2 Listen to her when she is talking to me
5.3 Try to understand how she is feeling
5.4 Talk to her about how I am feeling
5.5 Show her daily that I love her
5.6 Show that I respect her
6 Be a good father to my daughter
6.1 Spend time with her
6.2 Teach her how to deal with problems
6.3 Help build her self confidence
6.4 Help when she needs it.
6.5 Help when she asks for it
6.6 Be passionate about my daughter
6.6.1 Spend time with her
6.6.2 Learn to deal with life so I can help her deal with life
6.6.3 Teach her good values
7 Be a role model for my family
7.1 Lead by example
7.2 Allow others
8 Be humble
8.1 Appreciate others and what they have to offer
8.2 Recognize my faults
8.3 Recognize my talents
8.4 Don't be afraid to make mistakes
8.5 Appreciate the wonder in every day things
8.6 Help others
9 Be faithful
9.1 Tell the truth
9.2 Be honest
10 Be honest
10.1 Admit when I am wrong
10.2 Remember that hiding and lying makes me feel bad and guilty
10.3 Hiding and lying make my wife feel bad
10.4 Honesty rebuild trust
11 Be truthful
11.1 Don't hide anything
11.2 Answer questions completely
11.3 Be forthcoming with information


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 Post subject: Lesson 8
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:08 pm 
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Posts: 126
Listening to my wife talk after she read the exercise was one of the hardest things I have done during my recovery. I kept wanting to jump in and talk about whatever point she was making. I held my tongue however and just listened. I even tried not to feel bad about the subject and while I didn't succeed completely, I was able to put my feelings aside for the most part. It was an eye opener for me to see this story through her eyes and not my own.

The story hit the nail on the head for her, complete wth the indicators of problems and the covering up and explaining away. I think whoever wrote it did a brilliant job taking the scenario out of the sexual contex and put it into an easier to deal with one (business partnership)

She talked about a lot of different things while I listened but they break down into the following areas. I wrote down notes after she was finished and hope I remember everything she talked about.

There has been a loss of innocence
She can't see the future like she used to. We used to see older couples walking together and ask me if I saw us like that. I would always answer yes without even thinking about it. I still see us that way as we get older but she no longer is as sure. She has also become very cynical about relationships, especially when she see young couples together. It makes me sad to realize that I have broken something like this inside her because she used to be a positive person. She also said that she's not sure she wants to celebrate 10th aniversery. We had talked about getting some of the people we had at our wedding together to celebrate and now she's not sure she wants to.

See's recovery centered around me
She doesn't think I understand what she's going through. While I may not completely understad all of her feelings, I certainly understand the hurt and the pain I have caused. I also understand, or think I do, why she can't see our future so clearly anymore. I have thrown everything about us into question, so much so that one of the things I hear from her most often is “I don't know who you areÂâ€Â


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:54 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
I would need honesty, openness, reasurance, closure.

Honesty
I would need her to be honest about what she had done. A disclosure of the facts and the circumstances around the behaviour.

Openness
Ongoing and frank discussion of the reasons behind and the impact of the behaviour. An ongoing discussion of any professional help being sought.

Reassurance
An apology for the behaviour. Assurance that the reasons for the behaviour have been understood and dealt with. If not completely then at least an honest attempt to understand and deal with the underlying issues.

Closure
I would need to believe that the behaviour is behind her and that the reasons for the behaviour have been addressed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am
Posts: 126
I am choosing to be honest with myself and my wife about my porn use.

I am choosing to be honest with my therapist about my porn use.

Stash
In my head
Accessed via google/yahoo with search terms

People for compulsive behaviour
Pictures of women in porn
Videos of women in porn
Pictures of couples in porn
Videos of couples in porn
Random women on bus

Places
On computer in basement
Computer at work
On bus going to and from work
Shower at home


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:32 pm
Posts: 4572
re: "Your top fifteen values"

Ha, and here you probably thought that since two weeks had passed, you were off the hook!

To be practical in life management, these values will need to be adjusted a bit. And that's okay, because your value system must be fluid...capable of adaptation and change as life dictates.

First, this one: "Remember that all my actions have consequences"

This is not a value. It is something that you would do to strengthen a value. So, what would the actual value be? Responsibility? That sounds good. Accountability might also work.

Second, many of these are sub-values of one or two larger values:

2.Be passionate about what is in my life
7.Be passionate with my wife
8.Be passionate about my daughter

You will do yourself a huge favor by reorganizing these values into more practical categories such as:

1) Living my life with passion
2) Strengthening my relationship with my wife (with 'being passionate' as a sub-value--something that would better fit on your proactive action plan).
3) Strengthening my relationship with my daughter (with 'being passionate about her life' and 'being a good role model' being sub-values that again, would fit better on your proactive action plan for developing that larger value.

But even with something like, 'be a good role model'...that is useless unless you have developed clarity in what it is you are trying to role model. Is it healthy communication between spouses? Is it transitioning to the adult world? Is it managing one's emotions? Is it sacrifice? Balance? These are the things that, by having clarity in them, you will be able to more easily monitor your progress and, they will be more easily integrated into your day-to-day life. Not to mention how useful they will be in contrasting behavior that goes against these values.

Third, some of these are general, idealistic values that CAN be practical, but only if you have a clear vision as to how they will be integrated into your day to day life. And that is what you must be working on...establishing this clarity. Values such as:

11.Be humble
12.Be faithful
13.Be honest
14.Be truthful
15.Be generous

re: "Proactive action plan part 2"

DON'T get frustrated! I can see that you have put in a lot of work here...and it has not been wasted. But, from an objective view, these are a bit too general to serve in the manner that they are intended. FOr example,
'9 Be faithful
9.1 Tell the truth
9.2 Be honest'

There is so much more to faithfulness than honesty. It would be to your advantage to think of the next two or three SPECIFIC actions you could take to strengthen the role that 'faithfulness' plays in your identity. This, as opposed to some blanket statements that really won't move you forward in your development because they are too general to serve any useful purpose. Does this make sense?

re: "Listening to my wife talk after she read the exercise was one of the hardest things I have done during my recovery."

Good for you in just sitting with this discomfort without trying to soothe it. From this point forward, don't fear or avoid uncomfortable feelings. You NEED to develop experience in managing them. Even if the only skill you currently possess for managing them in a healthy way is to just sit with them until they subside. It is STILL a much healthier approach that trying to escape them.

re: "I am choosing to be honest with myself and my wife about my porn use."

Excellent. Take this commitment and make it a part of your identity from this point forward. Any time you find yourself wanting to hide (or maintain past secrets), remember this values-based choice that you are making. To be honest. Hold yourself accountable for taking full responsibility for everything you do. Hide nothing--even and ESPECIALLY the mistakes you make. This will actually increase the stimulation you derive from the GOOD choices you make...and, it will reduce the destructive consequences of the POOR choices (though this will take some time to accept--as you will likely continue to gravitate towards the immediate consequences rather than the long-term consequences).

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Jon Marsh
Recovery Coach
RecoveryNation.com


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