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62andbroken's REAL recovery thread
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Author:  Kenzo [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

young man
Quote:
NOTE: I pulled this from an earlier post for this lesson, not much has change since then. These are still my primary rituals. I don't “practice” them much at this time, we are VERY isolated right now, financial problems, no job, family is just “to busy” to have much to do with us, although my wife sees some of them occasionally.
I “missed” one of my granddaughters' graduations because I was avoiding the situation and was informed in no uncertain terms that I was NOT welcome in their home for an as yet to be determined period.
For me, consequences once again, but what REALLY pisses me off that they are treating my Wife badly too. She was there, as she always is, and supportive, as she always is…. It's ME that they are angry with and they are taking it out on Her and She will NOT let me say anything to them….
ARRRRRRGGGHHHHH

you need to focus on your recovery to the point of selfishness (not a good value but useful at this point)
I know its tough
My sons do not communicate with me , actually its me that fails to communicate with them
fantastic that your wife supports you please do honour and embrace that

I feel for you and you know that I believe in you

BUT and by now you know my buts
Quote:
I don't “practice” them much at this time


gives me concerns
let go of all of that shit now

Author:  62andbroken [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Thank you Coach K.
I've made the choice to let all of that shit go, but as you well know, it starts slow and is difficult, not impossible or I would have given up long ago.

Lesson 29:

"A. Describe the emotions that you experienced and the thoughts that triggered them."

EVERY thought brought sadness and emptiness. I remembered the day my Wife told me she was pregnant and I know I was joyous, but all I feel now is empty. I remembered the day my Dad died, I know I was terrified, lonely beyond belief and angry, but all I get now is empty. I recalled as many of the highs and lows of my life as I could, when I know I had emotions and all I got was empty and sad. It's like my past is just a fuzzy black-and-white movie.

I thought I was past this and was actually able to feel things now and I do feel blasts of anger both at myself and others, guilt and shame (all those things that somehow I'm supposed to set aside), but the good feelings like happiness, contentment, peace and so on that I thought were there occasionally aren't.

"B. In assessing your own anxiety, describe the extremes of your personal experiences with anxiety. What has been the least anxious state you have experienced and the most extreme anxious state you have experienced?"

Least anxious: I believe I feel the least anxious when I am asleep, at least that's the only time I am not aware of feeling anxious.

Most anxious: When I am with my Wife in a crowded place such as a store, church, park, restaurant, anywhere with other people.

It seems that I haven't gotten very far with my “emotional maturity” either, to this point at least. Most of the time I just want to let the world go on by and leave me the fuck alone.

Author:  62andbroken [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 31 Exercise:

"A. Make a list of all identifiable stressors that have affected your emotional health over the past week. For each,
document whether it is a mild, moderate, severe or extreme stressor. Example: 1) Facing Possible Divorce: extreme; 2) Lost respect among friends and family: moderate."


1. Wife is pulling even FURTHER away (we don't sleep in the same room, we barely talk), extreme;
2. Youngest son want's nothing to do with us and particularly me, extreme;
3. Daughter want's nothing to do with us and particularly me, extreme;
4. Had to tell older son to get a job and move out; extreme;
5. No one to talk with about anything, extreme
6. Keep looking, can't find a job, extreme;
7. Unemployment ran out, just have SSI now, not enough, extreme;
8. Not sleeping much, moderate;
9. Bill collector's getting nasty, moderate;
10. Physically really starting to feel my age, moderate;

"B. Return to your values list created earlier in the workshop. In a healthy life, the majority of energy being drained (e.g. stress) should be related to the pursuit of your highest prioritized values (top fifteen or so). Do you see this pattern in your life? If not, what do you think this means in terms of the way that you are expending your energy?"

That pattern is an “on-again off-again” one for me. Some days (even minutes) I am deep in my values, and others not so much.… On my “bad” days (minutes) I spin my wheels a LOT, fighting hard to just stay somewhere close to sane, others it's not as bad. I can see that I am wasting huge amounts of energy just hanging on.

"C. Likewise, in a healthy life, the majority of meaning and stimulation that you gain should also be related to your highest values. Do you see this pattern in your life? If not, what do you think this means in terms of the quality of life you are living?"

As above, even after all of my time here learning, I still have some difficulty getting my stimulation from my values, although it has gotten much better. No this pattern is NOT ingrained into me yet. When it is working, my life is not nearly as chaotic a when it's not working and I am starting to recognize those times, for real.

Observation: I am physically short (vertically challenged??) and have noticed that I m actually shrinking a bit with age, all normal.

Last week, however, I noticed that I seem to be “taller” e.g.: I got up from the table and looked down at it and it seemed a little farther away. WE were at some acquaintances' house that last weekend and I noticed that they both seemed “smaller” then I remembered them being. I'm not sure what that means at this point; I'm hoping that perhaps my low self-esteem is improving a bit…..?

Author:  Kenzo [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Hi shorter and older young man :s:
Quote:
As above, even after all of my time here learning, I still have some difficulty getting my stimulation from my values, although it has gotten much better. No this pattern is NOT ingrained into me yet. When it is working, my life is not nearly as chaotic a when it's not working and I am starting to recognize those times, for real.

great observation and honesty
so I suggest you are under selling yourself
trust in
this programme
this community
your wife
most importantly yourself

Author:  62andbroken [ Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 32:

"1. .....Summarize your progress on your recovery thread."
Proactive Action Plans:

I have NOT done well with these plans, with a few exceptions

1. Self-aware ~ I MUST be aware of myself, of who and what I REALLY am in order to accomplish much of anything;
A. Meditate every day at least once for 15~20 minutes; Occasionally but rarely
B. Review myself at least twice a day to see if I have been staying present both
in private and in public; Usually once a day, sometimes once in several days
C. Stop as soon as possible when hit with emotions to sort out what they are and where they
came from; This I have been doing pretty well with, in the last two weeks at least,
getting better

D. LISTEN to my Wife's (and others) comments about me and my behaviors WITHOUT becoming
defensive; I do listen,(to my wife, don't see anyone else right now) and can usually
(60%~70%) not get defensive, getting better


2. Loving ~ of my GOD, of myself, of my Wife, of my family and of my fellow man, at
least to a degree, starting with listening;
A. Pray often and read my Bible at least once a day; Pray VERY often, read my bible every
other day, getting better

B. Accept myself as I am and allow myself time to heal without negatives. Check in with myself
about this at least once each day; Doing MUCH better here most of the time, check in at
least once a day most days, not all

C. Learn more about and practice re-parenting myself; This has been a struggle, made a
little progress, not a lot

D. Initiate real conversations with my wife daily, REALLY listen and do my best to hear, feel and
understand what she is saying/trying to say. Check in with myself daily about this; I
initiate a conversation occasionally, not every day, I DO listen and do my best to really hear
and understand what she id saying, and not saying


E. Initiate real conversations with my sons/daughter/granddaughters as often as possible and
REALLY listen and do my best to hear, feel and understand what he/she is saying/trying to
say. Check in on the days it happens; No contact anymore.

3. Trusting ~ of GOD, myself, my Wife, my family and then others;
A. As above, pray often and read my Bible at least once a day. Do my best to accept that things
are unfolding as they should and let it be as it is. As above, doing OK with this one
B. LISTEN to what my Wife has to say, accept the anger, sadness, pain, and betrayal, and accept
what she has to say as part of her healing as well as mine. Doing much better here,
although seeing her pain, anger and sadness is horrible

C. Listen to my various family members, accept that they are trying to allow their true emotions
out and trust that they are real. No contact
D. At this point I'm not sure what to do about “others”, don't have much outside contact. No contact

4. Forgiving ~ mostly of myself, but of my Wife, family and others;
A. Pay close attention to my self-talk to myself and correct gently as necessary. It took a long
time to get here, it will take a while to recover; This has been difficult to accept, doing
better, not good, just better

B. Practice patience with my Wife. Understand that she is reacting to her worst nightmare made
real. Allow her time to hurt, be angry, be sad and all of the other emotions that I forced her
into. Accept her reluctance to trust of respect me again, and be thankful that she chooses to
stay for now. As above, it took a long time to get here, it will take some time for her to
recover too; Doing better here too, actually better then I expected, but not good
either

C. Same as B above for my family; No contact
D. Also as above, not sure about others right now. No contact

5. Transparent honesty ~ The “see through” kind, nothing at all hidden;
A. Stay mindful of myself at all times, particularly in crowds and other extra-stressful situations,
remember that I used partial truths and outright lies before to deal with them, and use only
the complete truth going forward. Keeping my shit together and staying mindful of
myself especially in a “crowd” (e.g. grocery store) has been one of the MOST difficult parts for
me. It nowhere close to good, but a lot better


6. Intimate ~ emotionally and physically (as in holding hand, cuddling, etc.) with my Wife, only;
A. Accept that my Wife has NO trust right now and so no willingness to be intimate in any way,
shape, form or manner. Not much improvement here yet
B. Continue to be patient and gentle with her to allow her the time she needs for this to happen.
Holding on to this, patience is NOT one of my strong points
C. Be aware and accepting of the fact that this may NEVER happen again. I have grudgingly
accepted this, not lost hope however


7. Self-respect ~ I MUST learn to respect myself, no one else can before that;
A. Remind myself EVERY DAY that I am NOT my addictions, THEY are part of me. They were
necessary at one time long ago but no longer. I allowed those parts of myself to evolve
(devolve?) into what they became and take over my life. I am now taking back my life.
This has gotten somewhat easier (at least accepting my addictions as a part of me has)


8. Respect for others ~ I cannot expect respect if I don't give it;
A. Keep constantly mindful that everyone has their own thoughts, opinions and beliefs. Mine are
no better or worse then theirs. With my Wife, this has gotten much easier, with others,
no outside contact

B. Be willing and open to discussions about opinions and beliefs, but hold on to my own and not
allow myself to adopt anyone else's just to impress or be liked. As above, With my Wife,
this has gotten much easier, with others, no outside contact


9. Communication ~ First with myself, then my Wife, then my family and then others;
A. Be mindful of my self-talk and aim it at positives. Some days are good, others not so
good

B. Be VERY mindful of keeping transparent honesty in my self-talk. This one has been
rough, but has gotten much better

C. Speak openly and honestly with my Wife at ALL times, no matter how much it hurts or what
the consequences may be. This one too has been rough but is much better
D. Speak openly and honestly with my family at ALL times, no matter how much it hurts or what
the consequences may be. No contact
E. Speak openly and honestly with others at ALL times, no matter how much it hurts or what the
consequences may be. No contact

10. Empathy ~ To really feel [and understand] what others are feeling;
A. Actively listen to my Wife and try to understand what she is really saying, without any
judgment, defensiveness, anger, guilt or shame. Not as good as I want but much
better

B. Actively listen to my family members and try to understand what they are really saying,
without any judgment, defensiveness, anger guilt or shame. No contact

11. Creativity ~ My artistic self WANTS OUT!!!!
A. Work on some type of creative project no less then once a week. Not doing very well
with this one


12. Fun/humorous ~ to laugh at myself at least every day;
A. Find a reason to laugh at myself (this should be soooooo easy) every day. Some days
yes, other days no


13. Learning ~ about something, new every week;
A. Replenish my library, both virtual and physical, Doing OK with virtual
B. Find a new subject to learn about periodically (hard to put a time-frame on this). Several
in mind, have not started yet

C. Periodically take (teach?) some classes at local Community Collage. Not yet

14. Adventurous ~ Once past the fear and self-intimidation, life is an adventure waiting for us.
A. Not quite sure how to implement this one yet. Still not sure…..

2. Update your Proactive Action Plans as needed. The plans themselves are, I believe, still good, the problems lie with ME.

Thank you once again Coach Kenzo :w:
I DO trust this programme, I DO trust this community and I DO trust my Wife. The problem all along has been in trusting myself, but I am slowly learning to do that.

Author:  62andbroken [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 34 Exercise:

Immediate gratification plays the primary role in the lives of most people who struggle with addiction. In your Personal Recovery Thread, share the following:

A. Describe a time in your life when the "Immediate Gratification" principle has come into play:

My entire life has been one long orgy of immediate gratification. It started so far back that I don't remember much about it other then both of my parents were still there. I was an incredibly spoiled only-child. When they died, I took over that role myself. I know now that I didn't have any idea of what else to do. I gratified myself with stuff for years, until my inheritance ran out.

I remember that at one time I decided to buy a new car, and not only to buy it, but to order it the way I wanted it (yes, you could do that waaaaaay back), so I did. I didn't care about the cost or what anyone thought, or give a damn about anything but that I WANTED that car and I got it. Saying no, or even considering it, was not an option.


B. As best as you can, describe the anxiety you feel when you are trying to NOT ACT on a compulsive sexual thought or behavior. Be specific. Compare it to other feelings of anxiety that you experience. The purpose of this exercise is to begin to define the limits of your emotions — and where your compulsive urges stand within those limits.

This kind of anxiety varies in intensity from a minor irritation to major fear (as in fight-or-flight response). It seems worse when I am around ANY kind of a group of people and much less when I am alone. Currently, we are feeling a LOT of anxiety/stress from my lack of employment and the potential financial melt-down from that. The 'high end” anxiety from not acting out is very similar to that.

C. As best as you can, describe the feeling that you experience while you are engaging in a certain compulsive sexual thought or behavior. Is it a trance-like feeling? Is it a hyper-alert feeling? If someone could get inside your mind as you were experiencing such a ritual, what would they find?

It usually started with mild anxiety developing into hyper-awareness developing into a “trance-like” autopilot kind of feeling.

I can't really say what someone else would find, at this point I'm just starting to actually see it myself, some of it at least.

“Autopilot” is a term for my mental state that I would have absolutely rejected, before. It is now pretty obvious that it, along with the “path of least resistance” that I so fondly used, are nothing more then covers for my addictions, and they only “worked” for me to deny/cover up/hide my thoughts and behaviors from myself.

Author:  62andbroken [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 35:

I have NOT been anywhere close to doing my daily monitoring, not at ALL.

I started it today (already) again.

I am going to revisit this lesson in two weeks, (around 09-20-2015) and actually DO IT.

Once again I have had to rub my own nose in my shit…. Not pleasant.

I would have beaten the crap out of myself before, but I know from experience that would have only fed my addiction.

Done with that.

Author:  62andbroken [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 33 Exercise Day 1:

"2. Each day over the next three, share a few insights relating to these topics in your personal thread. Insights that you have gained from that particular day's focus."

09-07-2015 Today my emotions ranged from mild to moderately severe. Mostly in the medium range. They were, for the most part negative, anger, resentment and frustration. I thought they were towards my older son, an addict too, but I realize that they were really directed at myself. I felt good about some tweaking on one of my computers that I did. I had a few “happy” feelings, when my Wife came out of the bedroom this morning, when she said hi to the dogs and when she laughed at the dogs. Seems that the dogs are the only thing that help her feel happy anymore. These were all fairly isolated, most of the day I just felt lonely and empty.

Author:  Kenzo [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

hey kiddo
great honesty and openness in recent posts
however
and you know me well enough by now
so I ask
where are the positives
your recovery is about you and you do need to accept the positives as well as own the negatives
I am not suggesting that you do but playing the victim will never forward the path of recovery

Author:  62andbroken [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

"Lesson 33 Exercise:
2. Each day over the next three, share a few insights relating to these topics in your personal thread. Insights that you have gained from that particular day's focus."

09-07-2015 As yesterday, emotions were all over the place. I felt good about the dogs and going outside to do morning chores,. Otherwise, not so much. My Wife was invited to dinner at our son's, I was NOT invited. I was OK with that since he is still to busy and stressed to talk with me, but I felt very, very lonely and a little abandoned while she was gone. I tried to take a nap in our bed (I don't sleep there anymore) at her suggestion but it was far to uncomfortable. I felt much better after she got home, got to see some images and movies of my son and grandkids!!!

09-08-2015 Today was kind of a wash, I was down with something resembling the flu all day. Felt better this afternoon (after sleeping nearly all day). Emotions were still mostly negative and I was snappy and judgmental towards my Wife, without cause other then I felt like crap.

I'm seeing a pattern of negativity running strong through me….

Kenzo, once again THANK YOU!!!

I have a very difficult time feeling positive, particularly over the last three years or so. Before, it was easy, I had my addictions to "deal" with the negatives so no big deal.

Now, I am becoming more aware every day of myself and the shit that my addictions and selfishness has caused. I know I'm supposed to let all of that go for now, but I have a VERY difficult time with that some days.

No, I am NOT a victim. I used that for years too, and now that I can usually recognize it, I reject it completely.

Author:  62andbroken [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 36 Exercise:

"I. Describe a scenario from your past where not having a well-defined set of boundaries has prolonged and/or intensified the personal consequences that you have experienced."

Purposely flirted with female co-worker and started a relationship with her that was leading towards an affair. Then “D” day happened. It's now 3-1/2 years later and my Wife is still angry, betrayed and bitter (with good reason).

"II. Describe a situation in your life where having solid boundaries will assist you in managing the event in such a way as to protect your value system."

I am talking with my Wife and she asks me to make a decision. She has her opinion/ideas but lets me make the call, then “overrides” my decision because it's not what she decided. I am establishing a boundary of not letting her “override” my decision when she asks me to make the decision in the first place.

Author:  62andbroken [ Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 37 Exercise:
"I. List three of your highest values (values prioritized within the top five)."

#5. Transparent honesty:
A. Anything that I say will be the complete truth as I understand it to be;
B. If I find out that I spoke what was not the truth or the whole truth I will let
whoever I spoke to know the whole truth as soon as possible;
C. I will assume those close to me will speak the whole truth as best they
understand it to be;
D. If I find out that they spoke what was not the truth I will assume that they were
not aware of it and let them know;
E. If I find out that I was purposely lied to I will assume extenuating
circumstances and be more cautious with him/her going forward;

#3. Trusting:
A. I will trust in GOD in everything;
B. I will trust my Wife in everything;
C. I will trust myself (my “gut) when I feel something about person(s) or a
situation, good or bad;
D. I will trust in what my family says and does;
E. I will trust in what others say and do unless proven that I shouldn't

#4. Forgiving:
A. I will forgive GOD, my parents and all others from my past;
B. I will forgive myself for the past, but not forget the lessons it has taught me
(and will continue to teach me);
C. I will forgive my Wife for all;
D. I will keep aware of what I see as “transgressions” against me, understand
them as best I can so I can forgive;
E. I will cultivate an attitude of “it doesn't matter why, I forgive you”.


II. For each value, list at least five concrete boundaries (rules) that you will use to protect that value.

See above.

III. Absolute boundaries are those boundaries that under no circumstances will you ever cross. These must be realistic AND you must hold them in reverence. Typically, everyone should have at least three such absolute boundaries. List three that you will use to help manage your life.

A. Absolute boundary #1: I will, under NO circumstances, willfully commit
suicide;
B. Absolute boundary #2: I will, under NO circumstances, lie to my Wife or
anyone else, if absolutely necessary I will say nothing, but no more lies;
C. I will continue on my path to recovery, no matter how discouraged I may get.


This one was a bit rough. Apparently I need to review my boundaries (or boundaries in general), or maybe I need to review my Values or at least the way I wrote them.
OK, time for a quick review.

Author:  62andbroken [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 38 Exercise:

"I. Review the boundaries created to protect the values listed in the previous lesson."

"II. Consider at least two situations where this value may be threatened. Are the existing boundaries enough to protect against this threat?"

A. I discover that my Wife is having an affair. I confront her and, at first she denies and lies about it.
Then she admits it but attacks me as the reason with “How does it feel?” “It's not my fault, it's
YOURS” kinds of statements. She then tells me She's leaving with X and I can deal with it however
I choose.
After the initial shock, anger and pain I believe my Absolute Boundaries will kick in and then my
other boundaries will take over and I will survive then move on.

B. I discover that my Wife is having an affair. I confront Her and she admits it, says it's over, asks for
forgiveness and to be together again.
As above, once the initial shock, anger and pain run their course, my Absolute Boundaries kick in,
then my other boundaries take over, we talk things out and decide whether to move on together
or not.


"III. If not, evolve your boundaries so that they are capable of allowing you to manage those situations."

As of right now, I believe no adjustments will be necessary. This will probably change as I continue through the workshop, and life, but for now, I think they are OK.

Author:  62andbroken [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 33 Exercise:

"2. Each day over the next three, share a few insights relating to these topics in your personal thread. Insights that you have gained from that particular day's focus."

09-09/10-2015 After comments to the effect of “where are the good feelings” and “Are you just allowing the bad feelings to keep yourself in a bad place so you can use?” (THANK YOU to my Wife and Coach Kenzo for this particular kick in the ass..) I looked long and hard at myself, and yes, I am guilty of that, and have been doing that for DECADES….WTF??? !D

I have seen and felt good feelings, laughter and, maybe not quite joy, but happiness over the last two days (and on reflection, over most of the last three years ~in my “recovery() but I chose to either ignore them or minimize them. After all, I MUST feel miserable, otherwise I can't pretend to be a victim and I loose a MAJOR excuse for my choices, actions and behaviors.... :e:

I see the good feelings that are there, now I need to start pulling them up and out to use THEM to feel good instead of my bullshit. :pe:

Growing up just SUCKS sometimes…. :ex:

Author:  62andbroken [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 62andbroken's REAL recovery thread

Lesson 40 Exercise:

I. Choose someone in your life that you feel close to. A spouse. A child. A parent. A friend. Rather than assuming what boundaries they have; or what values they want protected...take some time to step into their lives. Refresh those perceptions that you have. Consider how you can HELP THEM reinforce those boundaries. Post a few thoughts about this in your thread.

I chose my Wife. The first thing that came to me to help Her reinforce Her boundaries was to die. Absolute Boundary #1 kicked in so that's out. The next thing to come to mind was to just go away and let Her go on with Her life without me being anywhere near. All or nothing thinking rearing it's ugly head once again.

The one thing that will help Her the most at this point, is to continue on my REAL recovery path working through anything trying to get in my way.

She has a major value of total transparent honesty, with a boundary of “if you are not, I don't want you in my life anymore”. Not unreasonable at all. I have that as a value too, but since I have lied so much for so long, I may or may not ever be able to show Her that so that She believes it.
She has a major value of absolute faithfulness, with the same boundary of “if you are not, I don't want you in my life anymore”. Again not at all unreasonable. That will also take a long time, if ever, to show Her that IS who I am now.

I am engaging Her in real conversations as often as possible (difficult at times given our “shared” depression) and really listening to what She is actually saying, as painful as that usually is, to better understand Her feelings, wants and needs. This is something that a REAL partner does, and I should have been doing for almost 40 years now…. Better late then never!!!


II. Consider what you could do should YOU become aware that you have violated a boundary of theirs.

Tell Her IMMEDIATLY (although She will probably already know), sort out what happened and why and discuss it with Her to get Her “take”. Work out action plan(s) to take care of the situation for the next time.

III. Consider your reaction should they tell you that you have violated a boundary of theirs. Think beyond defensiveness...keep working until you grasp a healthy reaction.

After the defensiveness goes away, sort through what happened and why with Her, decide what the consequences are then figure out action plan(s) to prevent a reoccurence.

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