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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:11 pm 
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DB
I cannot give you an example that THE COACH would have given, but he was special
however from my own thread I copy
Quote:
Exercise 52 re visited
1. Consider a situation in life (outside of addiction) where this 'isolation' of feelings/emotions has been known to occur and/or might prove beneficial.


first time around I posted
Quote:
I remember when my son was about two and was chocking I turned him upside down and patted his back repeating the action until his airway was clear then and only then did the relief and pride in accomplishment hit me



however there are also other instances
When playing soccer in my younger days I concentrated so much on my role in all games that at the end I remembered nothing

When going for my Tae Kwon Do blackbelt at the age of 44 I recall not one second of it

mostly though this prevails in my professional life
I give many ppt presentations often to large but always to influential decision makers, I am by nature quiet and shy and I certainly have that low self esteem, but I overcome these issues and only I know the turmoil happening inside of me



remember what the lesson states
Quote:
What I am looking for is your skill in understanding the concepts involved with isolating emotions and what it will 'look like/feel like' in real life application.


the understanding of the concept of isolating your emotions , outside of addiction
hope this helps

now one concern

Quote:
I know it has to do with lack of focus . . .being complacent . . not keeping being right on the forefront of my mind . . falling back into what is comfortable . . . looking for places that don't confront my past.


have you been working consistently on the lessons i.e. on your recovery
or have you been focussing on other related aspects ?

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Very perceptive and correct . . I have not been consistent in the lessons . . .it seems when things are going pretty well that I do get complacent and think things are under control . .the big things are, but there are other pieces that still need work. . .

thanks for the perspective and in the description of the situations . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:03 pm 
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When it comes time to actually make the decision as to what action you are going to take next, it is not always easy to separate the healthy options from the destructive ones. The ones based on values versus the ones based on emotions. Often, these two areas overlap. This is where experience, time and a commitment to make what you believe to be the best choice at that time comes in.

A. Describe a situation where you would consider masturbation to be against your values — and therefore, a destructive act. Describe a situation where you would consider masturbating to be within your values — and therefore, a healthy act.

Against my values would be as part of fantasizing about an individual that I have seen either in person or in pictures . . .the only healthy option I can think of would be if I was away from my spouse and had the urge to be with her . . .we are never apart for more than a week or so, so I cannot comprehend when that healthy act would come into play. as far as teh unhealthy scenario, that would just be going down the road of crap that led to destruction so that is not the place I want to go again.


B. In your recovery thread, list other common value conflicts involving sexual and/or romantic behavior that you have found yourself engaged in? Or that you may find yourself engaged in, given your history.

The lure of pornography, even soft porn, which in essence for me there is no such thing . . . is still occasionally difficult . . .the technique of changing environment seems to be the best deterrent . . .it is ridiculous that any of this attractive given the outcome of even dabbling in it . . .even a dabble is not worth the risk . . .it obviously helps when I can make love with my wife and my focus remains on her . . .never again can i go anywhere else . . .


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 Post subject: Re: DBACK Lesson 54
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:06 pm 
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A. Select a VALUE-BASED decision that you have made in the past year. What were some NEGATIVE consequences that resulted from that decision?

I have seen things that my spouse has done that, just over 2 years ago, I would have pointed out to her just to make myself look better . . . ignoring it because it really didn't matter ended up making me look like I was negligent in taking care of the issue . . . the jury probably would have been convicted me on my past record and honestly so . . .but also honestly I did not do anything wrong . . .I still feel good about doing the right thing although in the short term I suffered for it . . . there have been plenty of times when I was totally wrong yet did not suffer the consequences . . .


B. Select an EMOTION-BASED decision that you have made in the past year. What were some POSITIVE consequences that resulted from that decision?

Rationalizing that looking at soft porn, even pictures of young ladies was alright and harmless. As soon as I went there it brought back memories of where I had been . . .I stayed for a short time, but there were no positive consequences after the initial rush of "oh wow, look at her" . . .that was and may still be the gateway to more and more and more and I know the consequences of that.


The point to this exercise is to reinforce the reality that most all actions have both positive and negative consequences attached to them. When you evaluate the consequences of a particular decision, it is vital that you take into account all of the consequences — not just those that reinforce what you want to believe. In other words, do not fool yourself into thinking that all value-based action is healthy; and all emotion-based action is destructive. To do so is to destabilize the reality of the life that you are building and ultimately such thinking will lead you to disillusionment and regret.

I made things look like i was living by value-based decisions, but emotion based values were what I allowed to ultimately make decisions by . . .there was very little if any connection between my values and my inner self . . .it was all about my public self and everything in my inner self was a secret. I don't think I was totally lacking values, I just did not internalize any of them . .. I had strong connections with my family and with my friends although none of my friendships were deep at all really, and I was known for helping others which on the surface was a positive value. I was able to experience values, just nerves internalize them to be used in critical decision making times . . .The values that I clung to were attached only to the person that others saw . .In my mind, I rationalized that I could do this crap to satisfy my immediate selfish needs, yet I could still maintain the good values and image to others by keeping the whole thing a secret. If I could engage in pornography and prostitution and get away with it . . and in my my mind, I always believed that I could get away with it . . .I would do exactly that. I had not internalized any of these values into my true inner person that I so desperately want to present to others

List of questions to ask when succumbing to emotion based values . . .questions that I sometimes asked but in the end ignored!
I do not have to feel guilty or ashamed for my behavior; quite the opposite.
I do not have to worry about having contracted some disease that I may now pass on to my wife.
I do not have to keep secrets about my behavior — and thus begin splintering off into a dual-identity that is so common in addiction.
I do not have to expend energy to maintain the lies that I would have had to keep.
I do not have to worry about losing my family. Losing any more of my wife's respect.
I do not have to worry about my grandkids having to be raised without me in the home.
I do not have to worry about the guilt of my behavior affecting our communication.
I do not have to place myself in a situation where I am arguing lies with more lies — when I know that we all know that I am lying.
I do have a certain responsibility to uphold in terms of my behavior — which is why you will never read about me in the newspaper for some immoral act ‹smile›. I'm all too aware of the number of outward "model citizens" that are finally caught living secret immoral lives.
I do not have to spend years of emotionally exhausting energy trying to rebuild a marriage that had nothing wrong with it to begin with.
I do not have to spend the rest of my life wondering is she ever going to "really forgive me".


Last edited by DBAck on Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DBACK Lesson 55
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:32 pm 
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Choose a compulsive sexual event and dissect your decision-making in relation to that event. Look for the following:

Party
Were you aware that you were experiencing a compulsive sexual event at the time? Yes
How intense were the emotions that were triggered by this event — BEFORE you chose to act on it? Strong, anticipation, fleeting
At any point did you look to your values in a sincere effort for guidance in your decision-making? NO
After making the decision to act on this sexual event, how long did the emotions elicited from the event last? Hours, days, weeks, years?Days and Weeks turned into Years
In the aftermath, did you make a conscious effort to evaluate the consequences of your decision? NO
If so, what did you conclude? If not, do so now. What were the consequences — even if benign? Destruction . . .devastation, lack of support, trust, love, respect
If there were consequences, how intense were the emotions elicited from those consequences? Strong, very strong
How long did they last? Hours, days, weeks, years? (e.g. guilt continues two years later; was caught by wife, distrust continues two years later, lost friendships continue, etc.)

When you have completed this assessment of a past compulsive event and feel comfortable with your overall awareness of the event...choose another. Then another. Continue to assess past events until the areas that you are assessing become ingrained. These are the same areas that you will want to assess in present-day decision-making.
There is no need to document your thoughts. But do approach this exercise with sincerity and effort.

E1
Were you aware that you were experiencing a compulsive sexual event at the time? No
How intense were the emotions that were triggered by this event — BEFORE you chose to act on it? Anticipation, adventure, strong
At any point did you look to your values in a sincere effort for guidance in your decision-making? NO
After making the decision to act on this sexual event, how long did the emotions elicited from the event last? Hours, days, weeks, years? (e.g. affair lasted two weeks) Years
In the aftermath, did you make a conscious effort to evaluate the consequences of your decision? yes but really in the end no
If so, what did you conclude? If not, do so now. What were the consequences — even if benign? Devastation, lack of trust, love, respect, guilt, shame
If there were consequences, how intense were the emotions elicited from those consequences? How long did they last? Hours, days, weeks, years? (e.g. guilt continues two years later; was caught by wife, distrust continues two years later, lost friendships continue, etc.)
Strong emotions for years


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 Post subject: Re: DBACK Lesson 56
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Assess for the following:
Will you be aware that a compulsive sexual event is occurring? (at this stage, you should be) Yes . . .
How intense do you anticipate the emotions triggered by this event to be? Not that strong, but totally aware of potential
At what point in the decision-making process will you look to your values for guidance? Very quickly
Should you make the decision to act on this sexual event, how long do you anticipate the emotions elicited from the event will last? Hours, days, weeks, years? (e.g. online chatting will provide me with two hours of stimulation) hopefully seconds or minutes, maybe linger forHours, maybe days in my mind
Anticipate the consequences of your decision to act on the compulsive urge. What consequences might there be if you were caught? The END
If you weren't? Continuing the battle
If there are consequences, how intense do you anticipate the emotions elicited from those consequences might be? Very Strong
How long might they last? Hours, days, weeks, years? Forever


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Create an action plan for managing your most common compulsive ritual using the following guide:

1) Define the situation. After being reminded again of the crap that I have been involved in, and feeling like crap myself I am asked a question that in reality isn't that big a deal but I know will result in disapproval, I lie about what I had for breakfast . . .the reason . . because I want to be liked . . .i want her to think that I am doing well and making good decisions . . .fact of the matter is that it really wasn't a "bad" decision . . .just a decision that would not line up with what she would do . . .
Plan . . it is better to be put down again for not making the "right" decision than to like . . .when asked a question . . .step back . . .think through it before answering and then answer truthfully . . .like the shampoo from the hotel thinking . . think first come up with a new alternative . . .like the cinibon . . .think through and recognize the reifications . . .think first!

2) Evaluate all realistic options. Just like in the decision-making process, you will need to look at all possible actions that you would have available to you in such a situation. This does not mean to evaluate only the healthy options, but to consider all of the most realistic options you might engage in — given your current place in recovery
The goal was to be liked. The sad thing is by lying even the "seemingly most innocent" of lies, by the way there is no such thing, just made her dislike me that much more . Take a step back, think and then tell the truth, anything else take a step back, think and then tell the truth, anything else is fruitless Actually telling the truth is probably fruitless as far as restoration goes but it's better than lying


Last edited by DBAck on Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 7:14 pm
Posts: 215
Create an action plan for managing your most common compulsive ritual using the following guide:
1) Define the situation. After being reminded again of the crap that I have been involved in, and feeling like crap myself I am asked a question that in reality isn't that big a deal but I know will result in disapproval, I lie about what I had for breakfast . . .the reason . . because I want to be liked . . .i want her to think that I am doing well and making good decisions . . .fact of the matter is that it really wasn't a "bad" decision . . .just a decision that would not line up with what she would do . . .
Plan . . it is better to be put down again for not making the "right" decision than to like . . .when asked a question . . .step back . . .think through it before answering and then answer truthfully . . .like the shampoo from the hotel thinking . . think first come up with a new alternative . . .like the cinibon . . .think through and recognize the reifications . . .think first!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:58 pm 
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It has been 11 months since I have been here . . .still as they say in SA, sober . . .no slips sexually . . .just finished 3 years with no inappropriate sexual activity . . .but still have issues with telling the whole truth immediatly . . .making excuses for times that I do lie . . .ones that on the surface i rationalize as insignificant, but in the end they are lies and no excuse will make it a truth . . .reread the reminders, especially the coaches comments . . .understand once again consequences and impact that I have had on my spouse who incredibly is still letting me be here . . .actually my best coach and help . . .I am blessed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3880
Location: UK
Hi DB
Quote:
It has been 11 months since I have been here . . .still as they say in SA, sober . . .no slips sexually . . .just finished 3 years with no inappropriate sexual activity
.
:g: :g: :g:
have you thought about passing your experience on to others by mentoring?


Quote:
but still have issues with telling the whole truth immediatly


then IMO you are still in recovery rather than recovered
you know that denial and lies come naturally in addiction and you also know that in these actions you are wrong
I believe that you know to analyse this, put in boundaries and values to remove this fault and be the best that you can be

Quote:
understand once again consequences and impact that I have had on my spouse who incredibly is still letting me be here . . .actually my best coach and help . . .I am blessed
.
so do not let her down by letting yourself down, prove that you deserve what she gives to you

Go to man , just that extra stride or two and congratulations on achieving what you have :g: :g:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Posts: 215
So, yes . . .doing well with the sexual aspects of the addiction . . .and most of most of it . . .just here and again old patterns pop up of not wanting to admit my failures and wanting to be liked not for being truthful but for what others think of me . . .what has happened to the community boards? There seems to be nothing there lately . . .those were helpful to me . . .


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:20 pm 
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• This day, EVERYDAY, should be covered with loving gestures that flood my mind and bring healing to her. If the ground is intentionally, lavishly saturated with laughter and love and soul connection, there's not much room for slimy darkness to be pondered and prevail.
• Time to again, take on the work to purposefully reflect and apply healthy, healing truths!

• Plan my day and my words. Focus on very good, delightful thought and express them. Anticipate the pitfalls and act on what I know . . .do not just sit or lie there.

If I do the things listed above, I should not have to worry about the things below . . .but remember them . . .Have a plan!

- Do not bring the past up EVER . . .
Unless she asks me a question or some drastic new information has come to light and she needs to know
- Don't ever lie to her . . . EVER. . . .
Liars cannot be near her or our children. I will be revealed and removed.
- My manipulative, foolish excuses need to stop. Deal with my crap!! If she says I think the fwy is this way, I probably should go this way . . .my "I thought"s have not been that fruitful . .

Make this my own in the next session . . .I need to continue to work on me . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:27 am 
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Kind of talking to myself here, but bottom line . . .
that didn't last long . . .at my core I am still selfish and have a difficult time putting little things, that are really big things into action . . .


Last edited by DBAck on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:16 am 
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Quote:
Define rituals that you will most likely face in the next two years. For each, develop an action plan in five minutes or less...that focuses specifically on the immediate action you will take upon the awareness of the ritual; the anticipated emotions you will feel after you engage in that behavior; and the likely mind-games that you will play to get you to abandon your values-based decision making for emotion based decision making.


1. Walking into a room with attractive late teens or twenties girls in it
•Do I have to be here?
•Focus on something healthy . . .my wife, grandkids, something else that are not any of them
•Change viewpoint to avoid eye contact in that direction.
•Role play reaction . . .plan for this!
•Think about what good this has achieved in the past . . .none
•Recognize that this is not about right now . . .not a short term solution . . .but recognize the long term benefit Change . . . become healthier!
•Scoping out the room should not be a big deal, but the real issue is not the room, but the commitment that I have made to living free from this way of existing . . . Walk away from this situation not feeling bad as though I have missed out on something but rather walk away happy that I am not living that way any longer . . .prepare for this good feeling!

2. Seeing a video come up on a screen
•Why do I need to have video screen on at all?
•Leave . . .turn it off.
•Role play reaction . . .plan for this!
•Recognize that this is not about right now . . .not a short term solution . . .but recognize the long term benefit . . . Change . . .become healthier!
•Seeing the video should not be that big of thing . . .but even if it gives the impression that I MIGHT be going there makes anything related to that a big thing . . .plan for this things and feel good that I am not falling into the trap that has been set for me.

3. Seeing an attractive late teen or twenty something girl scantily dressed.
•Do I have to be here? Leave.
•Focus on something healthy . . .my wife, grandkids, something else that is not anywhere near them
•Change viewpoint to avoid eye contact in that direction.
•Role play reaction . . .plan for this!
•Recognize that this is not about right now . . .not a short term solution . . .but recognize the long term benefit. Change . . .become healthier!
•this is a possible exception to the rule that "this should not be that big of a thing " I think there is no way to have my mind go anywhere positive in this situation . . .change the focus, the environment, the veiwpoint . . .escape this on. . .don;t delay!

4. Temptation to Lie or not tell the whole truth
• What has this gotten me in the past . . .nothing but heartache and more problems.
• Is the short term escape worth the long term pain
• what long term good has come out of a short term lie that is found out . . assume everything is going to be found out


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:08 am 
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1) Initial awareness of ritual engagement
What the heck is going on here??? Recognize the end result that dabbling in this crap has happened in the past.
2) Automatic behavioral response (predetermined through values-based decision-making)
What is eternal . . .will this be helpful . . .what if my wife was here, can I share this with anyone else and they would think what I was doing is a good idea.
3) Anticipated lingering emotions
End result . . .one mistake away
4) Anticipated mind games to get you to abandon your values-based decisions
Short term vs. Long term . . .
It's not that big of thing . . the snowball effect . . .everything that is wrong is a big thing because the little things are what turned into big things
5) More specific behavioral plan for managing lingering emotions/mind games
Cling on! Move on! Focus . . .Jesus take the wheel . . .


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