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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:04 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I am realizing what an emotional wreck my H has become these days. Drinking booze a lot, and spending a lot of time in bed. At least he has been fairly communicative and we did have a big conversation about where his sexual indifference really stems from. It goes back to dday and how I lashed out at him totally insensitively when his cat was ill (which happened only a few weeks after dday, compounding an already stressful situation). In other words, he felt I really sort of "kicked him when he was down". And he has not really been able to forgive me ever since. But at least he was able to talk about it.

However, unless he gets a grip on his life and his drinking and finds a way to forgive me (and whatever else he needs to do, if anything, to feel enthusiastic about me) then I fear that his sexual indifference will continue to erode our relationship and make me that much more likely to end things on the romantic and sexual level -- although I imagine we will still continue to perform as entertainers. That's one thing that really does click for us, and our audiences love us together.

As far as New Guy, I am glad that I didn't rush into anything with him. I have lived according to my OWN time frame and values and not just jumped into anything hastily and without considering the ramifications. What if my H and I iron out our differences? I wouldn't wanted to throw away what we DO have now just for a possible temporary fling. Especially if it turned out that I really don't like key things about the New Guy. Which could happen even if I do try exploring the possibilities with him. I realize that relationships take their own time and pace.

The fact that New Guy clearly is attracted to me despite having told several of my friends who met him earlier this year that he has "sworn off women" and that he had gone through a really painful, messy divorce several years ago -- that shows the intensity of his desire, which is a big compliment to me. It is also quite overwhelming for me, since I am not used to anyone being very interested at all, now that my H has had only lukewarm interest for several years now (it's already a full five years since dday).

And I can imagine that New Guy feels overwhelmed too, with the intensity of his interest in me, even though he seems like he tries to not feel attracted -- and can't help himself. That must be hard for him to deal with, and perhaps forces him to deal with issues of his own, such as readiness for a new relationship. Or who knows what ghosts lurk in his emotional closet? Maybe he has serious intimacy issues or baggage of his own that he would need to work through emotionally before embarking on a relationship. And if he is shy as he claims he is, there might not be other women in the picture anyway, so if he does feel ready, maybe he will feel like getting to know me better if he continues to run into me casually and still feels like he likes me enough to want to pursue things with me in the future. And maybe by then I will have either resolved things with my H and we will delve into a deeper level of intimacy -- or I will have decided I have had enough of a room mate type of relationship and am willing to take a chance on someone new. Maybe even a different new person I haven't met yet.

but New Guy has shown me one thing that means a lot to me: that someone likes me for who I am, without me having to try to get him to like me, or me feeling like I have to cater to his definition of attractiveness etc. With him, I can just be myself and he likes me. If he does, but things don't pan out with him and I move on from him as well as my H, then maybe someone else will like me too.

Meanwhile I am now doing what is most important: living so that I like me. And that feels very good, very gratifying. And will help others like me even more too, no doubt.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:39 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
Much has happened lately. My H last week decided to really slow down the drinking and eat healthily. Then this week he had a hard time not drinking for one day, but I liked how he related to me: with honesty. He asked me if I thought that not drinking for one day was a silly thing to feel good about. Of course, that's not true at all. For someone struggling, one day is a huge accomplishment.

He said he realizes the drinking to cope with stress is related to low self esteem. Then later, as I was talking about how I plan to create some distance between us when I move (which will likely be in the next few months) and my focus will be on my new place and having time to myself. I said that this will give us each time to decide if we really want an intimate relationship. And it will also take the pressure off him trying to have a relationship when he probably needs to focus on himself and getting off alcohol if he really is serious about tackling his emotional issues, without having to try to please a partner. I heard him breathe a sigh of relief.

Trying to relate to me when there has been a big discrepancy about the lack of sexuality between us has been really difficult for both of us. And, after advice from a nurse tonight, I also suggested to him that he find a support system for himself for when I leave him. She recommended that I suggest this for MY sake, so that I can protect myself in case he makes it difficult for me to leave, such as in some way I had not anticipated. I encouraged him to take advantage of the alcohol counseling center near his place that's very good. Or to just talk to another recovering alcoholic he knows at a soup kitchen nearby. Or find out if any guys from AA in the neighborhood like to meet somewhere for coffee and chatting. The nurse was concerned that I might be enabling him by helping him so much. She might be right. But on the other hand, I do feel that I owe him something since the mess at his place is primarily my fault and the stuff is mostly mine. But I've been taking it to a storage unit I have now rented, with plans to move the stuff to my new place and sort it once I've moved.

At this point, the relationship between us is iffy as far as it continuing on the same level as boyfriend-girlfriend and exclusivity. The sex is now non-existent. He has not initiated any sex with me for over three months, and is completely unresponsive if I try touching him in a sexual manner. Nothing. He doesn't even say, "that feels good". He simply is unresponsive and just lies there. I have tried this once or twice in the past few months. But now that he is consistently uninterested, this just upsets me, and reminds me of what we no longer have together. So I have now given up trying to come on to him or entice him. Sex with him meant a lot to me, physically and emotionally and it is heartbreaking to have to give it up.

We have been communicating quite well though, and he realizes what is at stake. I now realize I need to create room in my life for having an intimate relationship to happen, whether it would be my H if he ever does take care of his physical and emotional health so it could happen with me again, or whether it could start with a new person, including New Guy if he is still interested -- and assuming there isn't some issue with him that might make an intimate relationship unworkable. Although I think there is real potential.

I asked my son for advice last week about all this, and he thinks it is a good idea for me to give myself that emotional space to figure out what will really make me happy. He said that he thinks I might be happier on my own than with my H if all we are able to be is "room mates" like we are now.

My H did express how angry he still is that it is because of me and all the stuff I have accumulated at his place that has created the pressure he is now under with the building management to clean up the suite. But they have backed off recently. However, understandably he is still really stressed about it and still very angry at me. So I do suspect that his lack of interest in me sexually is at least partly related to this unresolved anger. Of course, the anger could very well be exaggerated by the detoxing.

I was happy that he was so open with me tonight, talking with me how much in denial he has been with himself. He also told me that sometimes when I play music when he goes to bed it keeps him awake but that he hates to spoil my fun when he knows he is depriving me of the fun I really want to have sexually. I didn't realize the music was bothering him because he didn't tell me until now. I told him that I didn't want him to make sacrifices like that to compensate for the lack of sex. So this was good communication. Tonight I kept the music very quiet.

But even with all the very recent progress, I am not really convinced that my H will ever stop drinking entirely. So far, he has not shown any desire to completely refrain from drinking, which I suspect is the only way he is going to be able to control it and recover his health -- assuming it's not too late at this point, which it might very well be at his age (67).

But unless he cuts it back a lot and changes his lifestyle a lot and finds a different way to resolve emotional problems and resolve the anger with me, and also be willing to take ED drugs, and get his diabetes under control, which he has also not been handling properly (not testing his sugar and just guessing how much insulin to take, not taking his quarterly A1C tests, not watching his carb consumption, etc) and also not detoxing with medical supervision, then I can't at this point imagine us being able to have a healthy sex life together. This is hard for me since I do still love him. But I need to be realistic and I now realize that I am not happy with having to give up sex.

Now, about the New Guy. The day he told me he likes me "a lot" in the summer, I think he was scanning me first. Now, granted, I flirted with him and encouraged him to look at me. But this worries me, that maybe he has intimacy fears or problems of his own. Also, I really don't know him that well. But the fact that the last time I saw him at a meeting last month he was obviously interested in looking at me and looked excited makes me feel that I don't have to worry about him losing interest, so therefore no rush to get to know him. Or maybe I am only part of his romantic fantasy and it's not a healthy attraction. I think if he is interested in getting to know me for real will help me know if he is sincere or if my existence is merely in his mind a means of reassuring himself that he is desirable or a means of overcoming anxiety. But I am concerned that his apparent sexual interest in me seems way ahead of the level of friendship we have at this point -- which is that we are only acquaintances and business associates.

Of course, I have not been more open with him. I really wanted to give my H a chance to step up. I felt I had to do that first. Then if I do continue to get to know New Guy, it will be after I have assured myself that at this time and in the foreseeable future, there is no longer any likelihood of being able to share a sustained sexual relationship with my H. We are not legally married, so there is no waiting time for a "divorce". We can just go our separate ways and tell our friends we split up over "irreconcilable differences" and leave it at that. Of course, since I still have cleaning up to do at his place and I am depending on him for my move in the new year, and because we are entertainers together too, and neither of us wants to give that up, I imagine that we will still be in touch on an ongoing basis in the future. And in truth, after almost twenty years, I have grown to love some of the things I do have with my H that I do not want to lose: his companionship, the use of his great computer, the wonderful shower, the nice food he provides for us, the cat, and the lifestyle and security I have with him. We do many fun things together, including rehearsing for shows, shopping for groceries together, going to the pool, to movies, and the many normal things couples do. The only thing that really is missing is the sex and the excitement.

But I do not relish the thought of being a celibate for the next five, ten, or twenty years, depending on his possible life span. And I don't feel good about giving up sex until "death do us part" especially since we never actually got married and I never promised to stay with him forever. AND especially since a celibate life is not something I would have agreed to.

Otherwise, staying together forever is something I would have gladly planned on doing if he remained faithful to me, dealt with his addiction issues and other things like lying AND if the sex had remained exciting -- because the truth is I really did enjoy it a lot and I still am very attracted to him physically.

Who knows? Maybe we'll even get back together some day, if things don't pan out with New Guy and my H dramatically turns his life around. If that were to happen, the next time it would also mean my H taking the initiative to be with me, instead of feeling railroaded into a relationship, which is how he has always felt with this current relationship.

I am glad I talked about all this stuff with him. Although I am now discouraged because now that he knows I am considering New Guy, maybe that is taking away my H's interest in me even more. He knows that New Guy is successful at work, personable, physically fit, AND apparently attracted to me. So I worry that this knowledge has made my H not want to try anymore.

Meanwhile, I have not made any drastic moves, although I have been tempted to contact New Guy. But I have held back and am waiting to see if I run into him casually some time when I might decide I want to talk. I also know I can tell New Guy how I feel without having to do anything. We don't have to act on our feelings on any particular time frame. New Guy plans to be around for a long time and I will likely run into him a lot at his place of work in the coming months. So I can feel out where things are between us then, and assuming I have by then given myself permission to explore alternatives to my current life, if things don't change for the better with my H, then that could be a good time to open up to New Guy, if I still feel like interested in getting to know him better on a personal level. I realize this is one of the reasons I have held off on revealing my interest to New Guy: I didn't want to do so while still feeling an obligation to be faithful to my current H. It wouldn't be fair to New Guy and if there is the possibility of a real relationship with New Guy, then it wouldn't get off on a good foot.

This way, the way I've been doing everything, I feel that if I do try to pick up with New Guy where we left off in the summer, then it will be with a feeling of freedom that I will need to have in order to feel good about getting to know him. And presumably once I've gotten used to being on my own and ready to begin another phase without grieving the loss of my H, or at least without that being so fresh in my heart and mind.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:41 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
Here's Coach Jon's thoughts that he shared, which I wanted to have handy:

Knowing When To End the Relationship

I share this with much trepidation. The last thing I want is for even a single couple to “give up” on a relationship before that becomes the only healthy option left. And so, I will share some thoughts here and trust that each of you will put it into its proper perspective. But I’m telling you, if there is suddenly a mass exodus of people leaving their marriages/relationships, I’m never pushing the limits again!

First (and I say this openly): if I would have discovered my own addiction a few years before I did, and knew then what I know now about the recovery process I had to work through, I would have asked my first wife to leave me. No doubt. It is almost inhuman what she would have had to endure as I struggled to rebuild my life. Granted, if we had years and years of love and memories to keep us grounded through that process, who knows. It may have been worth the pain. But since our marriage was based on my addiction, and because I had not the first clue of what partnership, intimacy, love, etc. was really all about—I would have told her to run and not look back. At least, not until I had regained my identity some two and a half years later.

Ironically, it would have been best for me as well, as I have little doubt that had I tried to work through my recovery while married to her, it would have only taken one slip here or there to completely derail my progress. The crises that would have undoubtedly occurred as I struggled to learn about true honesty and communication would have done to us what it is doing to many of you: creating “necessary” crises, but crises nonetheless.

I didn’t have to deal with this because my wife never knew of my addiction. And so, those two and a half years I spent were years where I was accountable only to myself. And slips were met with frustration and intensity—but a rapid and direct recommitment to change.

I say all of this because some people in recovery perceive me as being different because I now know what I know. But I didn’t know it then. Back then, I was just as awkward and fumbling through my recovery as most are now. I also share this because some take on the belief that I am “destroying their marriage and/or encouraging divorce” and nothing can be further from the truth. I believe that any couple—where both are aware of the addiction and both are sincere in working through it—can not only overcome their past, but flourish as a result. Because of that addiction, the opportunity to grow closer and experience more depth as a couple is possible. Just as some who experience near-death experiences come to appreciate life with a depth that is rarely achieved otherwise. But, I also know that it takes both. One person committed just isn’t enough.

So, when is it time to “move on”? There is no easy answer and no definitive answer for all. Even in situations where those with the addiction have no true desire to end that addiction, other considerations must be involved in making the decision to end the relationship. Other values. Other goals. It is entirely possible that as a partner, you will derive more meaning from life through maintaining an intact family, home, appearance, etc., or from taking care of your kids or your career than you will from your marriage. Nobody but you can say whether or not this is the case for your life. Other people may see you as settling, but that is irrelevant. It is your values that you must work with and utilize to determine your actions and decisions.

Is it enough for you to end a marriage based on your partner’s refusal or inability to overcome their addiction? There is no answer to this—save for the answer that you determine for your own life.

Let’s also look at this from the opposite angle. Let’s say you have a partner who has gone through a healthy recovery and who is sincere about ending their addiction—but who even beyond this addiction lacks the interpersonal skills (communication, vulnerability, transparency, connection) that you seek in your life’s partner, and who you realize may never achieve the depth in such values that you desire. Yet your top goals revolve around more intrinsic needs like intimacy and partnership. And so, is it enough to end the relationship because of those shortcomings when he has worked so hard to end his addiction? Only you can answer this.

Should you be impacted by the fact that others may look at your decision and judge that you were the one who gave up? That you were unreasonable? Of course not. You are the only one who knows what is truly important in your life.

And so, we return to the fundamental question, “When is it time to move on?”

The answer? I don’t know. But here are some major considerations to process:

● Is continuing on in this relationship having an ongoing, detrimental effect on your value system? Is it further breaking you down?

● Are you continuing on in the relationship because you sincerely want to overcome this crisis and move forward with this man (or woman)? Or are you continuing on so you can say to yourself (and others), “I did all that I could do?” with the anticipation of an inevitable breakup?

● What do you sincerely believe inside: that your partner will change or that they won’t?

● When you think of “life after this relationship,” is there a sense of fear or a sense of freedom (or both)? If it is fear—is it fear for what will happen to him/her? To you? Or both?

Finally (and the real purpose of this section):

Once you have made the decision that it is time to end the relationship, do something extraordinary. Do the following:

1. Recognize that you (and the relationship) have nothing left to lose—that you are free now to make yourself vulnerable to him (or her).

2. Develop a plan for what your needs are and how they are to be met. Include in this plan your partner’s expected role for meeting those needs. Make sure you have a clear vision for each of these expectations.

3. Tell your partner that you have made the decision to end the marriage/partnership, move on with your life without them, etc. Explain to him that you have sustained too much damage to your life and that you need to rebuild a life that is safe, nurturing, and intimate.

4. Offer him the opportunity of taking the next month to pursue this with you. If he declines, so be it. If he accepts, do the following:

5. Work as a team. For you, that means tearing down all of your guards and making yourself vulnerable to him. Actively pursue the meeting of your needs not as a chore, or as a task where you are directing his behavior. Pursue this as a moment of opportunity where you are both working together as equals; an opportunity to rebuild a friendship that can be sustained whether the marriage ends or not; an opportunity to humanize each other again.

6. Ignore his addiction/recovery efforts (for now). Ignore his past (for now). For you, this means that the focus is on meeting your needs (including the need to take care of your family, etc.). This is not a selfish time for you, but a time when the primary focus of energy moves from him to you. For him, this means that he must manage his own recovery and take responsibility for his own recovery. If he chooses not to, so be it.

7. Offer realistic, supportive feedback. For you, this means offering non-confrontational feedback. You are “teaching him” about you. If he does something that irritates you—say, you notice him ogling a waitress when you are at lunch together—rather than explode in anger, simply address it in a way like, “You see, that is what I can’t have in my life anymore. Things like that. I need to have a partner who will respect me. Who actually wants to remain engaged with me.” And then let it be. Pay little attention to any rationalizations, justifications, or apologies he may offer. This is you teaching him about you.

8. At the end of that month (or earlier if he becomes uncooperative), assess the closeness that has developed. If that assessment concludes with your determination that this is not someone you want to invest any more time in—then it is indeed time to move on. With your head held high. You will have validated your decision to end the relationship.

The bottom line is this: try not to make these life decisions based on emotions or crisis. And, once you have made the decision (with a marriage anyways), take that last step. Set aside all of the crisis (temporarily) and just see if you can form a connection to the good in each other once more. Remember, you have nothing left to lose at this point—save for one more month of your life, but even then, you won’t be losing that effort. You have already made the decision to end the relationship and so, giving yourself this last thirty days of having the opportunity to engage in openness and teamwork will allow you to begin seeing yourself and your role in relationships in a whole new light. And that is the worst-case scenario. So it won’t be a waste.


The only exceptions I can see to this approach would be:

1) If you are unable to set aside feelings of hatred, repulsiveness, or other extreme emotions you may feel toward your partner. These feelings would no doubt interfere with developing a “humaneness” towards each other.

2) If your partner openly refuses to work on his recovery or even admit that he has an addiction.

The rationale for all of this? You don’t want to divorce the addiction—you want to divorce the man behind the addiction. Sometimes, this requires setting aside that addiction and regaining a connection to that man. And again, as a reminder, this is only suggested for those who have already made the decision to end the marriage/partnership. It is not for those who are uncertain and/or very early in the discovery process.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:59 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
My H and I went out dancing tonight. The band was great. But he seemed to scan a couple of women. It sure looked like he was staring at them. And glancing over to me to see if I'd notice. Then later I talked about it with him and again, as usual he adamantly claimed he barely noticed them. But he didn't seem to notice any of the women who were old, unstylish, or not his "type". And he reluctantly danced with me when I told him I am tired of always dancing by myself. And he never asks me to dance during a slow romantic number. I told him I wish we would dance those songs sometimes. Even for the one dance he did have with me, he obviously didn't want to touch me and pulled away when I reached out for him.

Then when we got back to his place, he fell asleep immediately. Also, he polished off most of the cookies I won as a door prize at a Christmas party the other day. In our house when I grew up, we tended to make sure to offer items around before finishing off the last of them. It's not like I didn't want to share my cookies, but he ate most of them and they were my door prize that I hardly got to enjoy. Yes, he treats me sometimes but still, I felt annoyed.

I am beginning to realize how really unhappy I am with him much of the time. I feel neglected, emotionally abandoned, frustrated sexually much of the time, and feel a distance that I don't enjoy in a so-called intimate relationship.

Yes, we cuddle and he sometimes gives me a little kiss. But he is not really open to me, not excited by me, and not at all interested in my sexual happiness. In many ways he is really selfish and I do not feel the love and devotion I want to have with a partner.

Of course, if I leave him, I might very well have nobody. But if I am not happy, I don't really feel that I have much to lose. There's nothing at this point to stop us from spending time together even if we don't really stay together -- which we hardly are anyway, except under the same roof a lot of the time.

I've probably completely lost out on getting to know New Guy at this point too. I just do not feel right about initiating contact with him again. I don't want to appear needy or pushy. But I feel bad thinking he has probably by now concluded I am not interested in him. Who knows? We just don't have any contact whatsoever, and now that there is a new office manager at his workplace, that is the person who attends the monthly meeting now, so I don't even get to see New Guy at the meeting I used to run into him at. For all I know, someone might have by now told him I had a H, and so New Guy might conclude I'm happily married and has given up on me.

So maybe I've thrown away a wonderful opportunity to get to know someone who was interested in me, in favor of someone who doesn't seem to really value or want a very close connection.

I guess I am really afraid of getting into a sexual relationship and getting hurt or abandoned again. And I knew at the time in the summer I wouldn't forgive myself if I left my H in his time of serious emotional crisis. But self-medicating with alcohol an irrational fear that keeps him from making love to me for months on end (or whatever it is that's holding him back) is really becoming more than I can take or care to take.

So I have decided that if things don't turn around as soon as he gets the word from the apartment owner that he will not be getting evicted (a move that would be very difficult for them to make after telling him repeatedly they are pleased with the cleaning progress) then I am pretty sure I need to end the so-called intimate relationship with my H. It really would be simply irreconcilable differences. Who knows what will happen then?

Maybe my H will feel motivated to get himself truly "together" if he wants to be with me, and we will get back together. Or maybe New Guy will come back into the picture. Or maybe I will stay on my own.

I wouldn't want that last possibility. I really want a partner, a companion, a sexual partner. Someone I am compatible with. Someone who respects me. Who values me and who wants to help make me happy. Someone who makes me a priority.

Will that be my H? New Guy? Someone else? No one? Time will tell.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:31 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
It was difficult but I shared some info with my partner about sexual anorexia and reactive intimacy disorder, which was discussed this week on an RN forum. ... 22&t=23404

I also talked about Coach Jon's discussion of when to break up. I told him that I hope that if things don't move forward between us, intimacy-wise, once this apartment cleaning crisis is over, that I might want to try this "one-more-month-nothing-to-to-lose" idea and see if we can at least have some sort of good relationship at some level before I can feel okay about dating again if that is the direction that I feel I need to go in my life.

I also discussed EMDR for trauma and how it is effective apparently -- and endorsed by many health organizations.

He was not all that happy about having this discussion, which lasted about a half hour. But I thanked him for being willing to hear me out and told him that this made me feel a lot better.

Then we re-directed our focus onto some fun musical history info online, and he relaxed with the cat and kept me company after that while I carried on with the music and other stuff I am doing online with a volunteer project, dealing with a health issue. That felt good.

And now that I am in between jobs the volunteer work should help with my resume. So a reasonable day despite tackling some heavy issues.

But as I reflect on this more, I realize how annoyed he gets when I want to have this kind of discussion. I told him that I was hoping to share something new with him and the fact that various people say that they are very helped by therapy and that maybe there is something worthwhile that would be helpful for him. But in truth, I am not sure he is motivated to change. It seems like he is doing the usual stuff, which is to avoid talking about things with me along these lines if he can and to change the subject quickly.

At least I spoke my piece and he really does know what's at stake. And I have been able to talk about this now without getting overly emotional. Since sexuality is something that is important to me in a relationship and he understands this now, I think we both realize that he either decides he wants that with me and wants to do what it takes to get over his fears of intimacy (or whatever they are) assuming this goes deeper than just an apartment cleaning crisis -- or we will need to re-define our relationship as friends, which will then free me up to find a sexual relationship elsewhere. Because my bottom line is that I do not feel right about being in a relationship with someone who does not want to be fully intimate -- or who is at least willing to find a way to become so, including being sexual with me.

And given that he really seems to have lost ALL interest in being sexual with me -- at this point in time at any rate, and so far, no interest in retrieving it that is apparent to me -- then it's looking more and more that the writing is on the wall and we will have to call ourselves just friends and not real partners.

I feel a mix of emotions over this. Sad that I might be losing someone, who will always be a dear friend, I think. But still sad at losing what I had hoped we could have. But also excited about the possibilities for the future, including maybe a chance to check out New Guy and see where that might lead. Or to at least be grounded within my self. And even open to getting back together with my H if he does feel excited to be with me on a deep, intimate, and sexual level.

I know it's all a process and I am now coming to terms with how incremental these things all are, when a lot has transpired and with a person who has had some awful trauma and serious addiction issues. It takes time. But I am continuing to take the advice of various coaches and mentors, such as Nellie's simple yet important advice from this forum thread: ... 60#p210984
RN recommends that you wait until you are emotionally balanced before making life changing decisions.
So I am now doing what I can to be emotionally balanced and making incremental progress of my own. :g:

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:19 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322 ... 49#p206444

I've been reviewing this thread and Nellie's great insights, so I am posting them here as a reminder to myself:

My husband has had multiple affairs. I've discovered that he lied to me to start our relationship 18 years ago. (He was living with a girl. He told me a lie, that they had broken up and she had moved out. Now I know that wasn't true.)

His patterns were ingrained before he met you. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Then I would 'discover' something and there would be all this drama...but also sex again (finally!) and I would feel so hopeful instead of rejected and he would seem so sincere about changing.

Yes. I understand. The SA is a master at this.

HE said it was an addiction, but he chose to leave instead of get into treatment.

Yes. He chose his addiction and that's what addicts do until they seek help and work to change. Until he does this, he will continue this pattern, most likely. He has to reach the point where his addiction gives him more pain than relief. He's not there. :t:

You recognize that reaching out to him for your own comfort is not healthy for you. :g: Use this insight -- build on it. What can you do for yourself so you don't sacrifice yourself to his addiction and compromise your own values? Set boundaries to honor and respect yourself. Your sense of rejection seems key here - not uncommon for us to feel this way, but know that his behavior is not about you. It is about his unhealthy coping skills - specifically his own addiction rituals.

The RN workshop lessons will help figure all this out. I don't know where you are or if you have started them - but keep your focus on yourself - not his unhealthy behavioral choices. Few of us know anything about this kind of addiction but early lessons will help educate you -remember that knowledge is power. You are not crazy. You are on an emotional rollercoaster ride and trying to figure out what's going on.

As you do the hard work it takes, this ride will slow down - emotional stability will return...patience.

Hope this helps.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:44 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I am finally realizing that my H really doesn't care about having a sexual relationship with me anymore. This hurts, losing something that was once so meaningful to me. And yes, sex is a bottom-line part of a relationship for me. No sex, no relationship. Not in the full sense of the word.

So it hurts to realize I now have to let this go and see my H as just a friend. He still calls me by his pet name, and buys food, cuddles with me, and does stuff, like watching movies and going swimming and to parties. I really enjoy the comforting closeness and affection.

But the sex is now gone, as far as I can tell. I do not see it returning. And the sad thing is that I do feel like I love him, but the thrill is gone for me. I really no longer have any desire for him. I've trained myself not to feel that way anymore as it only leads to frustration and unhappiness.

But I feel really guilty for thinking about leaving him. I worry that he will increase his drinking or something drastic like that and that I will blame myself. I know I shouldn't blame myself and that he is responsible for his own choices.

The fact is, that in some ways he has continued the same unhealthy patterns. That is, I go away for a day or overnight to my house, and instead of putting the time to good use, he usually gets drunk. I doubt he is using any P any more, but the drinking was part of the self-destructive pattern he used to do when I left for a while in the past And my H still tends to get depressed over unfounded fears. At least this week he got a rent increase notice, which seems to strongly indicate he is not being considered for eviction. The management people haven't even followed up on letters they said they would send, and inspections they said they would do in the fall. So he got himself worried sick over nothing, mostly drinking instead of doing housework with me. And he still hasn't done the paperwork he had failed to do last summer that would have netted him a monthly rental supplement allowance he is qualified for. He has developed terrible inertia about just about everything.

Meanwhile I saw New Guy at a meeting again yesterday. He was very pleasant and I noticed him glancing my way from time to time. But as usual, he didn't do anything of a personal nature, and in this situation, it wouldn't be looked on favorably at the office, especially since we were there for a meeting and he is a high-ranking civil servant, so flirting could appear very unprofessional. Yet he seems to have a hard time taking his eyes off me. I love it that he never ever seems to notice anyone else besides me like that. And I am trying not to hide my interest in him as I was tending to do previously. I want him to know I am interested! And his attention to me is such a refreshing change from the indifference that my H relates to me with.

He makes me feel appreciated, and I can see he has trouble not paying attention to me. I haven't experienced something like this from a man, paying attention to me voluntarily, and it seems to have nothing to do with how I dress or what I look like that day. He always acts interested spontaneously.

And the reality is that my H is not an official husband. We never got married, and have never lived together. I am still taking things out of his apartment in anticipation of my move which is coming up soon.

The fact is that I have relied on my H and being at his place as part of my security these days. It is comfortable and predictable, and now that I am going to losing what has been my retreat for years, now his place has become that predictable retreat. So I really can leave anytime without having to wait for a divorce decree. And even if I do leave, he might be willing to welcome me back anytime as a friend and to do what we have been doing for a long time now: cuddling, watching movies, having dinners, talking. But this is not enough for me to feel fulfilled. I want someone who wants me sexually too. And who takes good enough care of himself to be able to do that.

I have communicated many things to my H about my feelings of sadness and difficulty with losing the intimate relationship we used to have. But he knows that this is hard for me. He knows that his heavy drinking is probably related to it, but he is not interested in stopping drinking and the fact is that he seems unable to slow it down for more than a day or two. Or unwilling to get any sort of help.

So it's obviously futile to try to have an intimate relationship with this person in active addiction and who is still hanging onto to some of his unhealthy patterns, particularly getting drunk when I'm not around instead of spending the time productively. That was always part of the P and acting out. So the drinking part has not really changed and maybe that is why he no longer has any libido that I can see.

I just wish I could figure out how to get to talk to New Guy other than at meetings or when he's at work. Plus I am very afraid of starting something new and getting rejected or discovering that New Guy has issues of his own and getting involved with a brand new set of problems. But yet he fascinates me a lot and I really like his personality, what I know of it. And I wish I could get to know him more.

On the other hand, I am worried that if things don't work out with New Guy, that I will lose my H completely and the nice things (affection, cuddling, talking) that we do have now. I am afraid of being alone and feeling lonely.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:16 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
Stage Three, Lesson Nine

Exercise Twenty-Two

A. Find a place where you will be alone and safe. Ensure that, for the next fifteen minutes, you won't be interrupted for any reason. Not five minutes, not ten...not even fifteen interrupted minutes...fifteen uninterrupted minutes.

Then, close your eyes and just feel. Feel the things that are important to you. Feel your values. Feel your regrets. Feel the trauma you have experienced. Feel the wonderful moments in your life. Let yourself experience all of the emotions that come to you — though allow these emotions to encompass a wide range. Focus on each emotion and DO NOT OPEN YOUR EYES! (this is an important part of the exercise).

After you have done this for fifteen minutes or longer, open your eyes and answer the following:
1) Describe the most extreme emotion that you have ever experienced.
2) Describe the most irrational behavior you have ever engaged in as a result of your emotions.
3) If you could go back in time and offer yourself "perfect advice" that would have influenced this irrational behavior...what advice would you offer?

Before doing this exercise, I want to mention the interesting synchronicity of a video I was watching earlier about dealing with depression, and that depression is a result of the thoughts we choose to think about and BELIEVE, and the emotions attached to those beliefs.

This exercise seems like it will be similar in terms of realizing that we have choices about how we deal with emotions. It will be interesting to do this lesson.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:13 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I will go back to this lesson shortly. But just reading the exercise has inspired me to realize that when I am feeling grounded and "speak my truth" from that centred place inside, that I can communicate much more effectively, in a way that gets heard and understood. Non-judgemental communicating that gets listened to and responded to much better.

Here are two really good examples of what I was able to say:

The other night, when I was trying to talk with him about why he is no longer interested in having a sexual relationship with me, he tended to get defensive and clam up, asking to change the subject. But instead of getting all emotional like I usually do which then either ends in a screaming match and him withdrawing or me withdrawing to go cry somewhere without being able to turn to him for comfort, I remained calm.

I told him I really want to know what he thinks the cause is. Is it because of his diabetes? His drinking? Because of the roller coaster that we've been through since dday? Because of the trauma from the sexual attack or attacks he lived through? Anger at me? Self-esteem problems? In other words, I told him that I wanted to know if this was something we could tackle together or is it something he must deal with -- or a combination of the two.

He said he really didn't know. I then said that to ME it seems that regardless of the reason, if you are not interested in discovering the reason, then that means that having a sexual relationship with me isn't a priority for you. Which is something I've said before. But THIS time I went further and here's the part I am happy with myself for doing:

I said, "I don't want to be in a relationship where I am doing all the begging and suggesting ways to resolve differences and the other person is just going along for the ride, when it's convenient. I want someone to proactively want to iron out sexual differences."

Then I suggested we NOT talk about sexuality anymore unless he brings it up and I changed the subject. He became much more open and relaxed with me after that. Amazingly, since he's been mostly quite closed off lately and , for example, didn't even wish me Happy Valentine's day this year, as he later said, "because I didn't think you'd want me to, since I haven't been able to be giving you what you want sexually".

Since that conversation he did say that he feels bad that he can't get into a sexual mood anymore at all.

On another occasion I was able to manage to discuss my H's drinking with him in a way that conveyed the real emotions I am feeling. It was not a criticism. Actually I started off criticizing him for how much he was drinking, how much weight he's lost, what a turnoff it is to me, and then I stopped myself.

I said, "I don't want to criticize you. The truth is I am worried sick over you and what serious things might be going on for you healthwise. And the fact is that I am having a hard time loving someone who isn't treating himself lovingly." He said that he can understand that.

These were ways that I changed how I expressed myself that were for once, non-confrontational, and which really got to the heart of the ambivalent and difficult feelings I am experiencing.

I am going through a lot of self-examination and questioning and asking myself hard questions about what I want in life and how to go about helping to make that happen.

Then there's New Guy who I saw at another meeting a couple of weeks ago. And as it is becoming obvious to me, he still seems to be like me a lot and be attracted to me. And is acting more confident that I really am interested in him . . . which I still am. And which I am confused about how to deal with those feelings.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:06 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I really learned a lot from reading this link:


I liked CoachMel's commentaries:

You have beautifully identified the central key of recovery (or lack thereof) when you said: “His whole heart wasn't in it.” This is what it boils down to. There will be starts and stops along the way in any process, but that which separates those who make it from those who don’t is found in that very statement. And—there is no way that the partner can know, unequivocally, which it is. Ever.

While this is a good sign—if his heart is really in it—it can also be a smokescreen that leads a hopeful partner to believe that this “new” information means more than what it is. This one incident isn’t going to dictate how his recovery goes, but a pattern of behaviours over time. Some persons in recovery are only ever motivated by crisis (in this case, the crisis is you caught him in a lie). My husband was the same way. Eventually, he told me all he could (or was willing to) tell me. When push came to shove and we were in what would be our final crisis (violated a bottom line boundary, and I had done enough work, and cycled through our patterns enough times, to recognize that there was no more “new” information that he could share. There was no way for me to believe his (false, it turned out) sincerity. My h realized this, too, apparently—because he didn’t even let the door hit him on his way out. I told him to come up with a plan and his plan was to leave almost immediately, go live with enabling friends, and less than 3 months later he started dating and said to me “we’re just different people; we don’t belong together; you have your thing, I have mine; your values are idealistic; etc. etc.” This, after 16+ years of telling me the complete opposite, that he didn’t want this (his addicted behaviours) as part of his life; that he always wanted to stop, even before we met; that he had traumatic events that led him to this behaviour (and he did, this is not to diminish that in any way). I digress. The point is to not mistake renewed commitments as sincerity as they can become a pattern. There is a lesson in the partners’ workshop that helps identify the path they may be on (sincere, insincere, somewhere in between).


(the person said: Once again, the hard part in this is that I have to give him time.)

Yes, but only because this is clearly what you value and are committed to. Someone else may not have the same values as you, and may not wish to give their partner the time it could take, which is ok, too.


I think that overcoming obstacles (vs denying them, avoiding them, running away from them, etc.) is definitely a path to growth-in relationships and within individuals.

and finally CoachMel says this about the nature of addiction:

This mindset (the “once an addict, always an addict” mindset) is a tenet of disease based models of recovery. The health based model (as promoted here, at Recovery Nation) does not have the same perspective. We see addiction not as something innate that the person has no control over, but as a set of behaviours that have been learned over the course of a lifetime, that served a purpose but have become maladaptive in that they violate more values than they support. With that, the person with addiction will overcome their addiction if they see that the cost of having the addiction outweighs the cost of not having it (i.e. if they truly value not having the addiction, and truly value the things that having the addiction gets in the way of such that they commit to learning new ways to manage their lives). The transition is described as the person with an addiction initially sees themselves as their addiction (not separate), then they learn to see themselves as a person with an addiction, then they begin to see themselves as a person who used to have an addiction, until they get to a point where they almost cannot fathom that they ever had an addiction (i.e. they come to know themselves as healthy individuals who identify with the vision they created for themselves and the values they honour that supports their living into that vision). Once they have transitioned to a person who identifies as healthy, they no longer live in the space of trying to avoid triggers and urges. Yes, they know that temptations exist (as well all do) but they become so well practiced at making values based choices, they no longer fear the temptations. They don't need "guardrails" but make healthy choices, autonomously. They have a developed awareness of themselves that allows them to make conscious choices from their vision and values, not emotion-based choices from a place of reactivity and immediate gratification. Of course, this takes time. And practice. And commitment. And a desire to overcome their addiction that fuels their willingness to challenge every urge and to realign to their path when they make mistakes. This level of commitment can only be intrinsically motivated, otherwise it will not sustain itself over the long term (because extrinsic motivation is always tied to some expected outcome, and when outcomes fail to meet expectations—as they usually do—the person either tried to cover up the mistake (to keep up appearances in an effort to try to force the outcome they wanted in the first place) or they give up, or in some other way change course. However, with health based recovery, the person with addiction does not have to admit powerlessness to their behaviour, and they do not always have to be on guard.


I am realizing after an important discussion yesterday with my current guy about how complete lack of sexuality that his is not a healthy approach to OUR relationship, as I have communicated to him.

I reiterated that it seems like the only way it would be likely to get going again would be if he either started really towing the line with his diabetes (absolute tight control of his blood sugar, completely proper nutrition and choices) OR taking cialis, especially daily cialis, which was working until he stopped taking it.

I asked him why he hasn't filled the prescription and he said it's because of inertia. Which to me, means he doesn't really care about having an intimate relationship with me or else he actually wants to avoid sex with me. I told him this. He says he's not sure which it is.

But either way, I realize that the outcome is the same: we never have sex and I don't see it on the horizon.

Therefore I am now giving myself permission to go elsewhere, even though it's really fun to be together and all that. But this relationship is really just a friendship at this point and not a romantic relationship, although I do like it when he calls me his pet name for me. I know we do still love each other. And I'm sure we always will.

He also knows I will need to spend a lot of time at home getting ready to move soon. I'm really scared to be alone, and I doubt he will be spending much time keeping me company or helping me clean the house. He never has in the past. I doubt he will start now. So I will be spending a lot of time on my own. Which will actually be good. And I said that this will be good for him too. It will give both of us time to really redefine our relationship. And if will give him time to decide if he truly wants an intimate relationship with me again. I am very doubtful at this point.

I don't want to just "date" either. I am not interested in a casual relationship with anyone. If New Guy comes back into the picture, I will want to communicate that with him too. Sure I like him and I am very attracted. But I only really want to get involved if he is looking for a serious relationship like I would be.

But I think I would have a hard time getting involved with him as long as I still have this depth of involvement with my current guy. Maybe not. Maybe I could see New Guy (assuming he's still interested like he was starting to feel or say he felt last summer) and also spend time with my current guy in the platonic way we've been keeping company. After all, I already have a number of platonic friends that I play music with or talk with, and have been doing so for years. So Current Guy could fall into that category too.

The fact is, that as much as I still love him, I am not content with a sexless relationship. I feel like I am not being fair to myself if I do not allow myself to explore other options, especially since Current Guy knows how much I want sex, and how heartbroken I am that we can't have the same closeness we used to have -- although maybe HE didn't feel closer to me with the sex. And obviously if he's not in a big rush to get the medicine that would likely make the difference -- well obviously being close with me in that way isn't very important to him. This hurts me. I feel rejected. So maybe I will have to move on, as I did years ago with Man of My Dreams, who wasn't interested in a deep sexual and romantic connection either, unless it was convenient for him now and then. And even when I confronted him, he didn't want to communicate with me about it much, and when he saw me with a brand new person, he never said anything like "Give me a call if it doesn't work out" -- or anything to indicate that he might still be interested if I changed my mind.

It seems that I have a pattern of getting involved with guys who are either afraid of intimacy or afraid of deep commitment.

My current guy hates talking about any of this stuff, ie the serious personal and sexual issues we have. But he seems not to have the desire and motive to really change things and become intimate with ME. I think he feels bad about not giving me the sexual connection I would want in order to feel fully committed to him. He knows what he stands to lose. But over the years he has told me he is afraid to commit completely in case I were to leave him and then he would feel devastated. This is ironic, as I have explained, because it's when he is NOT fully involved on all levels, that is when I am most likely to leave him. Which it now looks like it might be coming to.

Granted, if we do split up, and he has a renewed sense of desire for me, then I might be willing to reconsider getting back together. Who knows, if I'm on my own and HE has to chase ME, that's maybe what our relationship would take, since at first, I was the one who said I wanted him (and I left another man to be with Current Guy). Who knows if Current Guy would have wanted to seriously date me -- after all, I knew he was hoping to get involved in a casual way with other women when I first met him, but he said he wasn't interested in anything serious.

But that was twenty years ago. And at this point I feel like I owe it to myself to keep my options open and not plan on staying in a sexless relationship indefinitely. This is so hard to say since I do love him. But I also realize I should have seen his dday confession as a big red flag that he had a serious problem with sex and intimacy -- at least with me. Which he obviously still does. He said he was able to be more functional with women who "didn't count" and that with me the stakes are much higher because he has more to lose. So he still has an intimacy block of some sort, a terrible fear it seems, which he is NOT dealing with as far as I can tell. And I do feel sad about this as it deprives me of the sexual fulfillment I want in a relationship. :t:

The question is: how can I deal with this and respect myself and also NOT feel guilty about leaving him?

One more thing: yesterday was OW's birthday, and for the first time since dday, I did not get triggered outwardly (only a teeny bit inside). But it was fleeting. I am evolving.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:26 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I am realizing that despite all the really wonderful aspects of relating with my current guy, that underneath it all, I am feeling very depressed not having real romance, intimacy and sex in my life. These things are important to me. And completely missing. Not that current guy isn't sweet and affectionate. But he has abandoned me physically, except for cuddling while we watch tv. He rarely hugs me, doesn't kiss me to speak of, and is completely uninterested in anything sexual. And I miss that. I don't see anything moving in that direction. Yes, we're getting along better than ever in all other respects, but even without sex itself, I sense that he just isn't interested in me in THAT way.

So I realize that as much as I do love him, it's just not enough and not making me happy. I am realizing that I need more -- things that I know are just normal things, like physical affection and being a priority rather than just being a convenience. I do feel like now I'm just settling.

Now he is drinking less and being more present. But will he change enough? Because I am not happy and I doubt I really will be unless he does. At least I'm becoming more clear about what I really feel I need in a relationship. I have been re - reading CoachJon's suggestions about knowing when to leave which I posted on December 19th, 2014.

Last edited by Healthlove on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:51 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I spent a lot of time thinking about my relationship with current guy this evening and then said to him "I realize that a lot of the time when I talk with you about the lack of sex and all that, that you feel attacked. And I'm really not trying to do that because there is nothing wrong with how you feel. You feel however you feel and that's okay.

But I do want to really understand what those feelings are. I miss the closeness we used to have or that I thought we had. I realize that sexuality is not just about having sex itself but also the kissing and doing what we can to help make someone happy. And if you don't feel like that towards me, I worry that I have done some things that you feel are unforgiveable or else that I've failed to do some things that are important to you. Such as housekeeping, and I know I haven't cleaned up like you would want me to, but I'm trying to do better."

He said, "I know you are."

I continued, "So I hope you will really think about what you feel is missing in this relationship or what you need that you are not getting from me and then let me know. Because I am not happy that you are not feeling like being close with me and I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody."

And he then completely changed the subject and suggested I look up a certain video online we had been discussing earlier.

I didn't say anything at the time, but I was very disappointed (and a bit hurt) that he totally avoided saying anything in direct response to what I had just been communicating. Maybe it was his way of trying to help me feel better. But maybe it was his typical way of side-stepping anything important and just simply avoiding dealing with feelings and unresolved issues in our relationship.

But it's this constant distancing that is making me feel so alone even when I am with him. Where I feel like I am the only one interested in getting closer -- like it's me banging my head against a brick wall.

This week on the forums, I wondered about whether it would be okay to see New Guy if the opportunity presents itself and the feedback I got is that doing so would be cheating on current guy. But the more I see the relationship with current guy, the more I realize that he is not really interested in having an intimate relationship, but just a superficial friendship. A platonic relationship only. Or so it seems.

So if this dialogue I expressed to him is not forthcoming in the next few days, I really do need to pack the remainder of my things and end the non-romance and just start seeing our relationship as friends only and move on. This really hurts, but unless there is an immediate change, I think I will just be hurting myself if I keep kidding myself that there's anything more.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:40 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
Well, at least my current guy and I have talked. He told me he's barely holding on to reality and so sexuality is not really something he can get into considering how stressed he is. Fortunately he has been cutting back quite a bit on the drinking, amazingly. And he took a book out of the library on instant gratification so that's good to see. Plus, we talked about what recovery is the other day. Which he was receptive to. That was good.

But we went swimming and he did look at one of my friends as she got out of the pool and went to the hot tub. And as usual he defended this by saying she was in his line of sight. But it still hurts. Things haven't really changed very much, except that he is being more affectionate to me and he complimented me. But it always feels like the compliments are to prove he loves me. Maybe they really are spontaneous, I don't know for sure.

And he's been providing lots of nice food. On my part, I've been cleaning a little bit and cooking for him. But overall I am still so unhappy and not optimistic that things will change. I feel very fragile. I still haven't received my eviction notice but it will be coming up soon. Any day or month now.

I miss New Guy. I wish I could get to know him better. And I still can't understand really why getting involved with him would be cheating since current guy has abandoned me sexually, for months now. I am so distraught.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
It was hard, but I'm glad I got up the courage to tell my current guy that I was hurt by him scanning my friend when we were swimming the other day. I said that I am disappointed he doesn't look at ME lustfully and the fact that he was looking at her makes me feel that he is either not interested in me or that he is still only interested in women as long as he is not emotionally involved -- or both.

I told him that this does not feel good and is not how I envision a healthy relationship. I see a healthy relationship as one that includes sex and that if he really valued that too, he would be doing everything in his power to make that happen, including getting more insulin (he confided to me the other day that he has cut it back to stretch it since he hasn't bothered to go to the drugstore to get more). But of course, he's had no problem going to the liquor store to replace his supplies. He also said the other day that he would rather drink than have sex with me.

And even though last week he cut down on his drinking, he stepped it up over the weekend. As usual, just when it seems to be getting better, he increases the drinking again. So I am being unrealistic I think, when I start to believe that there is a real change in the drinking. There isn't. The best he ever does is "try" but it's not making a significant difference.

It all seems related: his state of mind, his attitude, his lack of valuing me and intimacy. He doesn't seem to want or care about being close with me, and it really seems that unless he has a real change of heart, that things are not going to change and that he will not value me sexually.

During our discussion, I also said that if the sexuality doesn't change or if he doesn't take steps to increase the likelihood that it will happen, then we should start telling people we are only friends, not partners, so that I can increase my chances of being able to meet potential partners (and in the back of my mind, I was thinking of New Guy -- although I was also including any possible men I haven't even met yet, in case New Guy doesn't pan out). After all, as I told Current Guy, if other men thought we were actual partners, then they wouldn't likely try to date me, and I would miss out on meeting someone who might want a full relationship with me.

I don't feel good about this, but I am realizing this is a boundary I need to protect. I value my sexuality and want someone to want that kind of relationship with me back, if it's possible to have it. This is really difficult, as there are so many things with Current Guy that I do love. The dinners, the movies, the conversations, the cuddling, the music. But as time goes on, I feel like we are just friends, not romantic lovers. I feel sad.

But also relieved that we had that conversation, and proud that I was able to talk as unemotionally and non-judgementally as possible. And fortunately, the conversation did not end in a quarrel. I said there is no right or wrong, but that I am just trying to get to the truth of the situation. Which to me, seems like he wants to keep me around for companionship and for what I can do for him (cooking, laundry). However, I reassured him that if I need to leave, I will still love him and we can still be friends.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:19 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 am
Posts: 322
I am looking back on the last couple of weeks and feel good that I at least have been having some honest conversations with my Current Guy.

Yes, it was hard that he said on March 11th, and I don't know why I didn't journal it then, but he admitted that night, on our way back from dinner, that he had heard a discussion on the radio or somewhere about some guy who apparently liked to drink more than have sex with his wife, and he said,
That sounds like me. I would rather drink than have sex with you.
Now, this hurt to hear. But at least he is admitting it and it of course explains why he is not in any hurry to get the Cialis again. Sure he could, but he really doesn't value being sexual with me anymore.

So as much as things are nice in many other respects these days, I do feel I need to move on emotionally -- whether New Guy still wants to get to know me or not.

Last night, I did say to current guy,
I guess you're still pretty angry at me that I made your life hard with the apartment management people, by putting you in that position of having to have all those apartment inspections?
And he said
Yeah, that didn't help. I've been struggling a lot.
So again, he was honest.

And he has been warming up to me, especially now that I am having mature conversations, ie not freaking out at him or putting him down, and I've been cooking and being productive and all that. He's been also making things nice, ie trying to choose movies or online things he thinks I'll like and all that sort of thing. And not drinking QUITE as much. But there is also no romance either. No kissing. No sex. And nothing that looks like it is heading in the direction of greater physical intimacy, other than that he occasionally asks me for a backrub, which I do give him.

I'm starting to actually now get used to the idea that our relationship has changed, and that he doesn't want it to be sexual anymore. He also knows I will be needing to spend a lot of time at home getting ready to move. So a gradual separation might be easier for both of us than a sudden change. And there's no reason we can't spend time together or whatever if we so choose, if I haven't gotten involved with anyone else, which of course, is possible. Current Guy and I can still hang out together if we decide to. And I'm already getting used to going out to dances and being with friends without him. So it seems like we're back to how we first began: as friends, having dinners and so on, and playing music together.

Okay, I'm going back to the next lesson, which I started a couple of weeks ago, and will copy below on the next post and do now.

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