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 Post subject: Doug's thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
Lesson 1
I have a real problem with fully committing to change for my own sake. Actually at present and for the last year my wife has been monitoring my internet use with my agreement. This means I am not watching porn. Obsessive use of internet porn has been my problem. My problem is that I would dearly love to watch more, and as long as that is the case there is a real risk that I will find some way to act out, which would be the last straw. Somehow I need to alter my orientation so that my moral disapproval of porn translates into a desire to abstain for its own sake.
With reagard to guilt I don't feel I have enough. I have caused my wife untold unhappiness. I feel bad, but to bad enough.
? I am able to allow plenty of time for this exercise

Motivation
Not to yearn to watch porn
To be truthful
To reain the respect of my wife and family
To regain self respect
To support and nurture my wife, so that she can heal, not to hurt her again
To enable her to trust me and love me as she used to.
To embrace my (potentially) wonderful life without reservation. Do I want that life with family and friends or do I want to be alone with my porn?
To look to that potential future without porn and the possibility of further lapses hanging over us.
To stop supporting the dreadful porn trade. To see it for what it is.
To feel the disgust of porn felt by most decent people.


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 Post subject: My vision
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:45 am 
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Posts: 14
Lesson Two

I dearly want to make my relationship with my wife the centre of my life. She is the love of my life, and I of hers. I could not wish for a more wonderful partner, and we have an interesting, if challenging life. Sometimes I want something less challenging but I want to dedicate myself to really working to make our lives happy and fulfilling. Porn could still destroy everything and leave me lonely and shamed, to say nothing of the disastrous effect it would have on her. When I am happy in my marriage, and when I am busy and have a purpose porn is less attractive but I am not convinced by the notion in this lesson that a passionate engagement with life will mean I won't want porn. I don't buy the argument that I want porn because of some emotional lack, or because my life is a mess. I like it because I am a visual erotic and I find it sexually exciting. I don't know what I can do about that deep attraction.


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 Post subject: My values and aims
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:12 am 
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Posts: 14
To strengthen my relatioship with Yan
To cherish my relationship with Yan
To be loving
To work with Yan to help her recover from her hurt and depression
To develop and embrace an active life with her
To be a full, involved member of my family
To support and show my love to Rob and Em
To be a good grandparent.
To develop self-denial
To be tenacious
To be generous
To be thoughtful
To be considerate
To make friends
To value friendship and to keep in contact
To put first things first
To be honest in all things
To become a fully wholesome person
To diminish my interest in porn
To develop technique and strength to stay free from porn
To continue to work on recovery
To keep fit, healthy and slim
To improve my appearance
To be amusing and interesting
To be more active in planning outings and holidays
Not to procrastinate
To continue to develop my langauge skills
To finish my stories and illustrate them
To study harmony and counterpoint


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:17 pm 
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To work with Yan to help her recover from depression and hurt
To become a fully wholesome person
To develop techniques and strength to maintain abstinence
To strengthen my relationship with Yan
To develop and embrace an active life with her
To be honest in all things
To keep fit, healthy and slim......


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:53 am 
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My list of wholesome and positive aims does not capture the other side of my nature. Despite numerous disasters to my relationship with Yan due to her discovering my porn watching, I still harbour a strong desire to watch the stuff. I could still say I have an aim to watch that is just as strong as my various aims to build my relationship and cherish Y an, who is the love of my life. There are many things I enjoy and I have a large and loving family and many hobbies that give me satisfaction, but it remains true that the only thing that gets me excited is the thought of watching internet porn. Sad but true. Of course, if I was watching regularly it wouldn't be so exciting. But despite being largely abstinent for the past 3 years the strong attraction remains. Yan has a disgust particularly of my looking at teen porn sites where there may be images of girls who look very young. I share her disgust but that awareness of the immorality, of ruined lives, of exploitation does not sufficiently inhibit me. I feel that my fatherly instincts should click in and make me ashamed and make me stop. I guess I am not connected up right.

So an important aim is to consider at length and in depth the unsavoury nature of porn and teen porn in particular in the hope that I can develop a more appropriate attitute that affects my actions.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3312
Location: UK
Hello Douglas and welcome to RN
Please hit the reply and not the new topic when posting in your thread
this keeps your posts as a thread thus making it easy for you to refer back as you progress
it also helps coaches and mentors to drop by if and as required
but if we dont then take that as a good sign
this is your recovery and your journey, you have to do it for you
This community is supportive and is rooting for your success but you need to demonstrate that you deserve to recover
There will be highs and Lows but in the longer term you know that addiction is no friend
kill it , recover and live
believe me life really is worth it and you do not need coping mechanisms

Quote:
in the hope that I can develop a more appropriate attitute that affects my actions.


please dont simply hope for it, make it happen
good luck

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:40 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
Thanks Kenzo. You say 'make it happen' but my problem is that I don't know how to make it happen. I have read enough of the RN lessons to understand that the approach is to build a life on solid foundations of good values, interests and activities, so that the need for acting out is reduced or eliminated. I have to want this and work towards this for my own sake, because I want it. But I believe that in most ways I already tick the boxes. I generally have built my life on good values, I care for those around me, have a rich and varied life, more so than almost anyone I know. I can't complain about my sex life. But despite all that I still want to watch porn. The sexual stimulation feels so good. I cannot see how anything can stop or even reduce that desire, and as long as the desire is there so is the risk of lapsing. Help!


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3312
Location: UK
Douglas

Quote:
Thanks Kenzo. You say 'make it happen' but my problem is that I don't know how to make it happen.

Oh but you do, you are correct that you need to change
not simply stop watching porn
watching porn per-say is a choice and can be harmless, but if it becomes compulsive, habitual or a dependency then harmful it is
If it affects others in any way again it is harmful

I am not condoning the porn industry, quite the contrary, but it exists because it has a market


Quote:
build a life on solid foundations of good values
,

and see and feel the benefits of change

Quote:
I believe that in most ways I already tick the boxes.


This is a very common perception of addicts pre recovery
I am not that bad, everyone does it
I recall saying to my ex
It was just a bit of fun, nobody was getting hurt, what do you think I am, a f*****g brothel creeper

Well it was not fun, I was hurting her and myself, and I was a BC
perhaps reflect a little more on the core you
Quote:
I still want to watch porn
.

want or need?
Quote:
I cannot see how anything can stop or even reduce that desire
,

you and only you can

Quote:
and as long as the desire is there so is the risk of lapsing.

correct
so analyse that desire
what does it give you and what does it cost?
what does it take from your wife?

let me leave you with this thought
Porn and addiction are not your friends

Good luck

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3312
Location: UK
Hello Douglas

it has been a while?

Quote:
as long as the desire is there so is the risk of lapsing.
:pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe: :pe:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
Thanks Kenzo for responding so fully. I'm sorry to have been silent but I have been away. (I find it very frustrating to use RN on my tablet).
I wasn't intending to sound complacent. When I said I ticked most of the boxes I meant I had a rich life with many goals and joys. I did not intend to imply that my porn watching was not serious. Over the past year reading, meditating and working with Yan (since my last relapse) I have gradually seen that I cannot minimize the seriousness of this, particularly for my relationship. I have caused her endless unhappiness. I fear for her mental health if I lapse again. I deeply disapprove of porn watching and the porn industry.

When Yan and I are loving and getting on well I can look forward to a joyful life together and at these times I can really want to abstain for ever. I fully embrace the possibility. It's like a dedication or a conversion, but then something triggers Yan to get angry, accusing and resentful. (I need more skill in handling these times) But then I tend to feel all that resolve evaporating away. Wouldn't it been simpler and less painful if I was on my own and not subject to this regular humiliation and heartache? Porn seems like a comfort - something to fall back on. I know these thoughts are foolish. I can't really see a life without her; porn would not soothe such a loss.


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 Post subject: My proactive plan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
I first need to explain that I have repeatedly, over 2 decades, been found out watching internet porn. I had my last chance in 2013 and lapsed again in 2016. In many ways Yan wants to separate from me, but whenever such an opportunity arises she backs off, saying she would be losing her right arm. At times we are close, almost like old times, but then we have abrasive rows which rarely seem to resolve anything. This autumn Yan will be going abroad for 6 months. Usually I would go with her although I am not comfortable in the heat and noise of SE Asia. It is unclear whether she will want me to go this time, or whether I will want to go. If I don't it will be the end. We have been married for more than 30 years and have 2 grown up children.

Although there are many difficulties I feel I must go with her and continue to try to heal the wounds that I have caused. Sometimes I feel she would be better off without me and could have fun in her own culture, but we are in most ways a wonderful couple. I am aware that I need her more than she needs me - at least I think so.

To this end:

I will give top priority to working daily on understanding and fighting my porn addiction and will continue to abstain. This will mean daily sessions on Recovery Nation, and reading the several books we have about dealing with and living with porn addiction.
I will actively avoid situations where I may be tempted to lapse
I will discuss my problems and temptations honestly with Yan on a regular basis
I will try to be smart and not trigger her anger
If her anger is triggered I will respond with apologies and understanding
I will not take offence at Yan's criticisms, insults and anger
I will try to accept, or at least not challenge criticisms even if I think they are exaggerated or plain wrong
I will respond with love
I will be cautious about arguing with her since it never seems to help
I will avoid becoming angry
I will be proactive in planning our lives together - trips, holidays, entertainment
I will seek to spend time with her - cycling, shopping, socialising and watching TV
I will be tolerant and understanding of her difficulties with sex that have been precipitated by my porn use. I must perfect the art of being close and affectionate without intercourse.
I will try to keep my mind focussed on the possibility of continuing our marriage, and consider no other possibility
In SE Asia I will develop new activities - language courses, perhaps music lessons, dancing and art. And I will use the air-con more to be more comfortable.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
I generally view my dealings with porn to be detrimental, as I am sure they are, and they have damaged my life, marriage and reputation. On the other hand porn has given me thousands of hours of pleasure, albeit while I have become addicted to this pleasure. I think my desire for sexual variety is quite high. In my 20s and 30s I was promiscuous. I met Yan when I was 41 and realised she was the woman I had been seeking all those years. Since marrying her I have remained faithful to her - no affairs and no prostitutes. I reckon this has been possible mainly because of the regard I have for the woman, but partly because of the availability of porn. For the first years of our marriage it was fine, but since then Internet porn has proved just too tempting to me and it has had a disruptive effect that we are now struggling with.

So if I had not used porn I might have strayed and lost Yan. As it is I have looked at a lot of the stuff and am addicted. For reasons that are difficult for me to understand Yan still wants me. So maybe it's not all bad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
When I was younger I masturbated, mainly to my sexual fantasies but I did not become addicted. Later I had lots of women and lots of sex, but again I did not become an addict. I went to see porno movies every few months and had a few magazines, again without any adverse effects. Internet porn has been my undoing. There are elements of this that are different from normal sexual activity, and I think it is the ability to stay sexually aroused for hours by viewing one image/video after another that may be so addictive. I suspect that if I used the Internet to masturbated to orgasm in, say a few minutes it would be akin to my previous sexual activity and not addictive. I have read that if a male rat has a single receptive female he will copulate a few times before getting bored. Give him a harem and he will keep at it almost indefinitely and to the detriment of his health. I'm not quite that bad, but there, I have no harem. I would be up for an experiment on this point.

The lesson mentions other aspects of acting out - touch, smell, feel etc. In consensual sex these are so important. Porn is amazingly addictive considering it is such a 'paired down' experience - only erotic visual images plus genital auto-stimulation.

I will take risks to act out, but I don't think it adds to my pleasure or arousal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:44 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3312
Location: UK
Hello Douglas and welcome to RN
Please hit the reply and not the new topic when posting in your thread
this keeps your posts as a thread thus making it easy for you to refer back as you progress
it also helps coaches and mentors to drop by if and as required
but if we dont then take that as a good sign
this is your recovery and your journey, you have to do it for you
This community is supportive and is rooting for your success but you need to demonstrate that you deserve to recover
There will be highs and Lows but in the longer term you know that addiction is no friend
kill it , recover and live

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 14
My interest in porn dates from childhood. It was manageable through my first marriage and had no effect on my divorce. I bought the occasional magazine and that was the sum of it. Two years into my second marriage Yan discovered some hard core mags I had bought. We weathered the storm and subsequently watched some porn together, but it was clear that I had more interest than her. She made vague attempts to find porn that interested her, but failed. My problem came with internet porn. I should have told Yan but chose instead to try to hide my habit. Of course she found out, and subsequently I continued to cheat and I was repeatedly found out. This probably happened half a dozen times culminating two and a half years ago with a massive bust up and my moving out for a couple of weeks. I came clean and explained the full extent of my addiction. Yan was deeply shocked but allowed me back, partly for the sake of the family. Then I was completely abstinent for over two years, only to relapse when I thought I could get away with it. Again I was found out. Yan was deeply shocked and depressed. In the year since then our relationship has been stormy. Yan wants to continue the relationship but basically is angry and unable to put this behind her. She endlessly goes back over what I have done and cannot understand how I could love her (which I do) and do this.

Our future is further clouded by her determination to live in her own country with her family. This is in Southeast Asia and is not entirely my cup of tea. I am, however determined to remain abstinent and to give my best effort to being the ideal husband, lover and friend. We enjoy travelling together, and this is a major reason to stay together. Although our children are grown up and have moved away, they still need both of us and I am keen we stay together as a unit. The least I should do is to continue to make the effort.

So, I work with RN in the hope of gaining insight and strength. I will get no more chances. Although Yan wants us to continue together it will not be like old times. She now finds sex difficult and fantasises about affairs with younger men. She feels that this is justified since she views my porn watching as equivalent to multiple affairs. I don't. She wants me to give her something that I cherish - like a large sum of money, but cannot say whether that would actually make her feel any better or view me any differently. Without her I may be able to start a new and successful life, but maybe not. I know I would miss her and family.


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