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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:01 am 
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Lesson 1

I met my partner in SLAA – a twelve step programme for sex and love addiction, so I knew he was a recovering sex addict. I too am in recovery for sex and love addiction and have been free from acting out in my sex addiction for ten years. The love addiction side has taken longer to recover from. My partner's recovery seemed strong, and he had been free from acting out for two years when we began a relationship five years ago. This started as a friendship and developed into dating after several months. Naively perhaps I never considered that he might relapse as I saw him as being committed 100% to his recovery, as I was.

Once the relationship developed and began to be sexual it became apparent that he had sexual avoidance issues – though he was able to give to me sexually he found responding himself and receiving very difficult. I know this can be the flipside of sex addiction. I knew I wanted a full relationship sexually and said that I wouldn't be able to continue longer term if it was not addressed. He sought out a therapist for us to work with on this. We worked with her for about 18 months and there was much improvement. Other than that the relationship was great in every way, with genuine emotional intimacy, I thought.

Soon after we started living together our sex life became more infrequent. I felt I contributed to this also, as well as my partner bringing it – I wasn't sure if it was because I was in a very stressful and exhausting job, perimenopause, perhaps sexual avoidance issues of my own, or a combination. We stopped working with the therapist as we felt we couldn't take things further with her. Other than that things were really good between us and we decided to move to a new city and invest in a home together.

From that point on things became more and more shut down sexually. After a year in the new town I realised I was very unhappy with how things were sexually and wouldn't be able to continue, even though the rest of the relationship was really good. I was doing a lot of work on my vision at that point and one of my values is being fully connected to my life force energy, and this includes healthy and intimate sex, which wasn't happening, either alone or with my partner. I brought this to him and said I wanted to work with someone again. He agreed and we began work with a sex and intimacy coach. In my mind I thought I'd give the process a couple of years and if there hadn't been much improvement over that time I would need to leave. I never once suspected or had any reason to believe my partner was acting out. After what has happened I will now always suspect possible acting out if sexual anorexia is present, even though I know it can exist alone.

Initially we worked with the coach individually. In this time I reconnected with my sexuality alone and it was a relief and a joy to realise it hadn't disappeared. When we started to work on things as a couple it was interesting that I stopped doing the solo work. I know I need to explore that more. As a couple the work was slow but felt very healing. At times I also found it challenging as I could see how wounded my partner was and how difficult it was for him sexually. Sometimes that scared me. My partner asked me to marry him just as we began the work together – I said I didn't know. I knew I wasn't ready to make a lifelong commitment until I saw how things developed.

Five months after the marriage proposal I said yes. It felt great that we were connecting again in the area of sexual intimacy, often the energy was vey gentle and subtle, though at times it could be hot too. I felt there was progress and a good foundation. Some of my unhelpful beliefs about sex had been challenged too which was good. I was really happy in the rest of the relationship and wanted to marry him.

Three days after I accepted the proposal my partner confessed that he had visited prostitutes on five occasions in the last eighteen months. The following morning, after a session with his therapist he confessed he had also been using porn regularly over the last eighteen months, and had had 6 monthly slips with it for two years prior to that. He had been in total relapse and I had no idea.

I had a massive trauma reaction. It wasn't the acting out so much – I know that that has nothing to do with me, or with genuine sexuality, I understand about that part of sex addiction – the coping mechanism. What shocked me to the core was the absolute dishonesty. Who was this person? Only a week before I came home from work, we were chatting, met friends that evening. My partner and I had ice cream out later on. Everything felt great. There was nothing odd in his behaviour at all, yet he had seen a prostitute that afternoon. He lied to me, to our coach, to his sponsees in 12 step recovery. He was capable of a complete double life.

Nearly three weeks on the shock and trauma has settled. It has consisted of: numbness, heart palpitations, loss of appetite, disassociation, nausea, total inability to be around people, rage, crying episodes, confusion, near panic attacks, feelings of humiliation, suspecting all men to be sex addicts…the impact has been huge – I have been unable to function properly. Now, due to amazing support from others and self-care I am back in my body and able to do more things. I asked him to leave early on as his presence was traumatising me. He is living elsewhere for three months. I don't know what will happen. I know I need to focus on me. He said in a brief email he is doing ninety meetings in ninety days in Sex Addicts Anonymous as a newcomer but I am keeping my nose out of his recovery- we are having no contact. Don't know what I can believe now anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Hi LR I am really feeling for you, it is just a brain-mess to be with someone who has been betraying you so comprehensively. Good on you for taking your space and time to heal.
I was feeling suspicious as I started to read your story because almost the only correlation I could find when I searched for clues about my partner’s acting out in our past were periods of sexual avoidance, and the more he was acting out, the more the avoidance.
I am still struggling to hold myself safe and happy in the face of my complete lack of control over what my partner does, but I have joined S-anon and am finding that helpful because I can at least share with women (in our group) who understand.
Wishing you all the best with your healing journey


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:21 am 
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Exercise 2

Vision

This has taken me nearly three months post d-day and after having written my first answer to do. That's ok! I spent a lot of time last year on a self development programme as well as in a 12 step programme that involved a lot of visioning. It has been very painful that this has happened following all of the imagining and planning for my life ahead that I did during that time. My partner relapsing and betraying me was not part of that plan!

Prior to this I often manifested things in my life that I wanted ie being an actress, living by the sea, but my life only got more painful. I know now that is because I focused more on external manifestations and not so much on the inner process and qualities my life needs to have. For example if living by the sea means leaving all of my close friends, making poor financial decisions and leaving a job I loved, a lot of other visions and values are compromised! I had my own addictions to deal with too, and that meant that a lot of my dreams couldn't bring me the joy I hoped for.

What I realise now is that visioning and getting clear on my values doesn't protect me from pain or bad things happening. What it does is give me a touchstone to remind me what is important to me and to help guide me, and then a pathway to follow. My self-care and listening to a loving power is the most important thing to me now, and needs to support everything else.

Vision:

Finding and expressing my own creative life force.

I nurture my life force energy daily, practising yoga on most days and moving my body in ways that please me and bring me energy: swimming, especially outdoors, dancing, walking in green space or on the beach, surfing. I eat nutritious foods.

I take time to nurture and reclaim my sexuality, discovering how it exists alone as well as in relation to another. This involves revisiting exercises and practices I learnt with a coach, and finding a support network/person/people also on this path.

I am involved in projects that celebrate and honour children, working directly with them, or creating work which allows adults to see the world of the child, and perhaps their own inner child, anew.

I listen to my feelings, tracking sensations in my body, and allowing emotions to come. I take time to be quiet with self and my loving power daily: prayer, meditation, guided practices online.

I continue to grow emotionally, finding groups, 12 step and other, that support me and where I can also support others. I work one to one with professionals who can support my journey when needed.

I connect in ways that are meaningful with others, letting go of fear of being seen and known. I also make space for connections that are fun and playful. I see myself having friends of all ages and genders, that I spend time with regularly. I am learning to give and receive physical nurture as well as emotional support in these relationships.

My creative practice grows as I try new things, and take courses or more training. I create theatre with professionals and non-professionals. I collaborate and generate ideas. I successfully apply for funding for my own projects. I am visible professionally, with a website, and I allow myself to shine, yet I am not defined by my work and know I am lovable whether I am working or not. I take risks and allow success and failure.

I rest when I need to and seek balance in my life. When I work full time on a project there is time for renewal afterwards. I pace myself. There is room in my week for self care and relationship as well as doing work that is fulfilling. I set my life up in a way that I support myself financially, investing my capital wisely and that, combined with my earnings, meets my needs. I seek support to do this ie 12 step groups, mentors etc.

I connect with nature and animals regularly. I spend time in beauty at least once a week, surf at least every six weeks, spend time with animals at least once a week and have deep immersion in nature at least three times a year.

I take the time to make my home a place of beauty and sanctuary, keeping it clean and tidy, having fresh flowers, learning how to look after the garden, playing music, having beautiful things around me, clutter free!

I am involved in projects that address social injustice, inequality and/or healing in some way. This may not form the bulk of my life but will certainly be part of it.

I am able to empathise with others and share with them the gifts I have been given to help them grow, should they want to. I do this from a place of inner resource and self care.

I am aware of my values and visions, and also know that being true to them and manifesting them is a perfectly imperfect process. Ultimately while I can do the footwork the results and timing are up to a loving power. I'm not in control of outcomes! I do my part and let go.

Above all else I tune in to my intuition, my gut, my loving power, and let that be my guide.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:01 am 
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Lesson 2 - extra bit of vision

I am a loving, supportive and fun sister, aunt and daughter, maintaining strong boundaries with my family and prioritising my self care.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:48 am 
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Lesson 3

A) Brainstorm the times when your 'gut feelings' have been right about your partner's sexual and/or romantic behavior. Include times when you feel strongly that you were right (though it may never have been proven either way).

B) Identify as many major situations as you can where you allowed your head/heart to override your 'gut feelings' in relation to your partner's behavior.


Situation 1

A. This is a tricky one as I never suspected my partner as acting out. There was one occasion though shortly before he disclosed where I felt a strong gut feeling of incongruence, which I dismissed. We were in our shared sex coaching session and she asked us for an update. Usually we would have a brief negotiation as to who would speak first but he jumped in straight away and reported that everything was going really well. There had been a fair bit of improvement but I felt something about the way he was talking just felt false.

B. I told myself that maybe it was important for him to feel confident in the process, I didn't want to rock the boat by stating that my experience wasn't quite as positive as this, I wanted to protect him/his ego as I thought that was what he needed.

Situation 2


A. We were out at a dinner with lots of people for a friend's birthday. Again shortly before disclosure. He was sitting next to a young woman who we both had spoken about it the past as being quite annoying. He was very engaged in conversation with her, and I thought he may even have been being slightly flirtatious, which was completely out of character. I'd never seen him flirt with anyone. He barely flirted with me at the beginning of our relationship.

B. I told myself that this was a good sign and that he was getting more in touch with his sexuality through the coaching work we were doing, I felt a bit flattered that she was flirting back with him and didn't feel threatened. So didn't override feelings but realise now I should have been more concerned as this was almost certainly a sign of his relapse escalating.


Situation 3

A. Again this is more general and with hindsight – I did not suspect addiction at the time. A couple of months before disclosure my partner started to have trouble sleeping – getting up in the night or not going to bed at the same time as me, which we always had done in the past, or coming to bed but being very restless and then getting up.

B. I didn't suspect anything, thought maybe it was work worries, but now know it could have been to act out.

Situation 4

A. General again – I had started to feel that my partner was not paying as much attention to his recovery as he should – only going to one meeting a week, self care poor, using one 12 step programme as a networking/advice/support opportunity for work rather that a spiritual programme, he reported several food binges to me also. Doing less overt recovery stuff. Overworking. Over-reading – which was flagged up to him in treatment. The thought came to me a couple of times whether I would choose to be with someone like that should I be choosing a relationship now.

B. I told myself that it's not my business how he did his recovery, he was showing up for the sexual healing work, more so than me in fact, I didn't know what was best for him, not my job to manage his recovery, still was affectionate and warm in the relationship, nobody's perfect etc.

Situation 5

A. General – throughout the relationship was very affected by his sexual shutting down and inability to show desire for me. I know this can exist alone so didn't suspect acting out.

B. I told myself that it didn’t matter, that the rest of our relationship was great, that I'd had enough sex in my life, that I was perimenopausal, that maybe it was my own fears of intimacy, that maybe it was a long term relationship thing. Even though when I talked about the relationship to others I felt a sick, sad and uneasy feeling in my stomach about this aspect of it. Eventually I couldn't ignore that as I was doing a lot of work on my own values, which is when I requested to work with someone again on our sexual connection.

C) Relying on the experience you have gained, make a list of likely behaviors, situations and/or feelings that may trigger a conflict between your gut instinct, your value system and/or reality.

This is difficult as these things can happen without acting out, but for me now they would be red flags with my partner, should I get back with him – I don't want to use them to never trust anyone again though!


• Sexual shutting down
• Food binges
• Workaholism, and denying it
• Over-reading – inability to be with self first thing in the morning or last thing at night
• 'Sleep problems'
• Not texting me goodnight or good luck for things if we were apart (he usually did this but I now know that a few times when he didn’t he'd been acting out, didn't think this at the time, again 'no-one's perfect')
• Flirting
• Him going into hyper-perfect partner mode, focusing on getting the home perfect (now realise he did this a couple of times post acting out)
• 'Proving' how well he's doing when my gut says otherwise


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:03 am 
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Lesson 4

My partner's core identity – his good values that exist separate to and beyond addiction

Caring for those close to him – partner, family, and friends, and wanting to do the right thing
(I do believe he has this innately within him but of course his addiction created opposite actions – especially re our relationship)

Care for the animals and children in his life

Cares about inequalities in society and injustice
(Again addiction warped this – acting out with prostitutes and porn, counter to this)

Affectionate

Funny

Bright

Good with language and languages

Conscientious
(a useful trait when covering things up, but a good one in other ways!)

Wanting to create a beautiful home

Enjoying swimming, surfing and music

Empathetic

A good listener

A good judge of people – intuitive and aware

Willing to try new things in the areas of healing


Qualities that will continue to pose as obstacles in relationship– aware that some of these may shift but this is what I think are the biggest ones for him

A deep belief that there is something so wrong with him he can't be fixed, and finding evidence to support that, either from his own process or taking examples of others

Lack of spiritual belief

Dishonesty – manipulation to get his way - I know this exists other than SA as I had seen it around employers, and he owned dishonesty as his number one character defect shortly after d-day, saying it has been with him since early childhood

Resistance to looking at the enmeshed relationship with the women in his family in more depth, especially his mum and the damage done there in childhood, not willing to explore the trauma further, seeing himself as having done the work

Holding on to resentment towards his dad and his dad's partner and making them the baddies

Self hatred and body shame, especially around his sexuality, inability to experience/express desire in an intimate relationship

Problems with witnessing and receiving my desire

Taking what he likes and leaving the rest around recovery work, so it looks like he's doing it but not really surrendering – not looking at food issues

Not owning anger, needing to be the good guy all the time

Unwilling to try new things in the areas of healing - yes, the opposite feels true too, not sure which one prevails!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:48 am 
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Lesson 5

A. How do you manage your stress? What would it take for you to become so emotionally overwhelmed that you would turn to irrational behavior to produce enough intensity to escape from that stress? Can you think of a time in your life that you have turned to such a measure?

I have healthy and not so healthy ways of managing my stress.

Healthy:

• Prayer
• Meditation
• Seeking support from others
• Therapy
• Yoga
• Swimming
• Dance
• Being outdoors
• Spending time with animals
• 12 step meetings
• Reading spiritual books
• Eating well
• Going to bed early

Not so healthy:

• Compulsive eating
• Going to bed late – watching TV
• Compulsive busyness
• Beating my self up expecting perfection
• Wanting to control others
• V occasional internet shopping

These days even when I get overwhelmed I don't tend to loose myself for a significant amount of time in irrational ways of managing stress. Since d-day for example I have struggled a bit with the evenings on my own and going to bed too late, staying up watching TV, but I don't think this has ever got crazy. The closest to it was the other evening when I was triggered and stayed up watching TV till 2am, and ate a tub of ice cream, but I got back on track with self care the next day. I do turn to the less than ideal coping mechanisms when in a lot of grief, or if I have several stressful events at once ie house move and new job, but generally regain equilibrium quickly nowadays.

Since writing this I have made some changes to my bedtime routine as this exercise helped to see how it is in some ways an irrational way of managing. On the other hand it could be seen as rational – when I made healthy changes I had to be with the incredibly painful feelings of loss and loneliness I was trying to avoid. Grateful in the morning though that I have taken the loving route, even though painful at the time.



B. Consider a compulsive behavior that you have engaged in. Break it down thoroughly. Get a sense for the anxiety that you experienced prior to engaging in the act. Imagine the continued anxiety that you would have experienced had you not engaged in the act. Describe that anxiety in your own words.

For this I think back to when I had just moved city with my partner, been through a very stressful house purchase, sold a house that was very meaningful to me, started a new job and it was the four year anniversary of my mum's death. I had several episodes of mini food binges. I remember the feeling of compulsion as a strong pulling anxiety, a tightness, a rising panic, an inevitability – an increasing tension, knowing that what I was going to do wouldn't really help but at the same time feeling that it was the only thing that would help relieve the rising anxiety. The feeling at the time was that if I didn't eat the feeling would just intensify so as to become unbearable, that I was clinging on to the edge of a cliff and that only eating would stop me falling.


C. In contemplating the role that addiction has played in your partner's life, imagine what his/her life would be like without this life management skill in place. To be clear, the task here is not to imagine his life without the consequences of the addiction, but to imagine how he would manage his emotions without having the compulsive act to engage in. How would he stimulate himself emotionally? What would he use to regulate his stress? Not how should he, mind you, but how would he?


My partner's life without the SA

To a certain extent I know this as I knew him when he was clean from the SA behaviours before his relapse. I can see how he manages his emotions without SA and what happens. He has a mixture of healthy and unhealthy coping mechanisms.

• Many emotions manifest physically rather than being expressed – chronic back pain, digestion problems, ulcerative colitis, headaches
• Bleakness and dark despair – suicidal ideation
• Using food and work to avoid emotions
• Needing to control his environment – having things perfect in the home
• An urgency about getting things done in his timeframe, impatience and covert bullying to make things happen
• Buying new gadgets
• Over emphasis on financial security
• Being in his head a lot – immersion in current affairs and intellectual reading (he was told to avoid this in rehab)
• Talking to his support network
• Going to meetings
• Going to see a professional
• Exercise – can become compulsive or result in injury but he tries to keep it healthy
• I imagine there is also a lot of anger that the other coping mechanisms suppress. This came up for him in rehab when all coping mechanisms were taken away.

This has been a really helpful question. It has helped me see my own areas of avoiding feelings more clearly, reminded me of how powerful the pull of addiction is – more compassion for partner, and reminded me how difficult things are for him without the addiction, even though it ultimately makes everything worse. It doesn't make me want to stay in the relationship at this point, but I am grateful to feel compassion.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:40 am 
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Lesson 6

A. Have read bits of He Danced Alone - already have good knowledge of SA so decided to move on with the other questions here.

B. Quite often, many sexual behaviors occur with such subtlety, such consistency and/or are so well disguised (through humor, anger, guilt, etc.) that it is not until you filter these behaviors through a net of sexual addiction when you realize that they are indeed woven from the same cloth. But the reality is, the majority of sexual addicts have positioned themselves within a cocoon of sexuality that is not related to their personality, but rather, their addiction. With this in mind, think of your partner's behavior over the course of your relationship. Describe the patterns that you suspect can be attributed to a sexualized mind.


My partner falls into the second category written about in terms of the sexualised mind. He is very repressed and doesn't comment on anything sexual or find anything a turn on, overtly that is. I remember on one of our first ever dates we went to a museum and there was a poster for an upcoming exhibition of Japanese concubine art. I said it looked interesting and I noticed that he almost flinched and immediately turned to a poster for another exhibition.


C. Of the four areas discussed in this lesson, which have you observed in your partner?

Sexualised mind:

See above – acting in sexually, shutting down with me, inability to connect in that area in the relationship. Associated with darkness, pain, shame and wrongness so acted out separately.

The objectified mind:

Definitely – his pattern was porn and prostitutes, both of which I know he abhors in terms of ethics, so he must've completely separated the act from the person when engaging with this. He also must have done that to be able to compartmentalize so well and hide it so completely from me.

Need for immediate gratification:

Yes, can really see how this must've played out in his addiction, the last question in lesson 5 helping me see that too. Find the following very useful:

Where your partner may have excellent analytical skills and phenomenal project management skills...where your partner may be the most thoughtful, compassionate person on earth...where your partner may have the ability to excel in the deepest, most philosophical discussions known to man — they still lack basic emotional maturity. And not merely in their ability to identify them (the challenging emotional situations - my note) — anyone can do that. I am talking about understanding the affect they have on thoughts, motivation...even compulsive behavior. Warped perceptions and skewed processing is at the root of the sexualized mind.

It describes my partner to a tee! He has all of those amazing qualities but that doesn't amount to emotional maturity.

I can see how the need for instant gratification also plays out in how he becomes very controlling about joint decisions – he hates to wait for me and actually becomes very anxious and fearful that decisions won't be made, even though for me I need to sit with things for longer. Admittedly I probably can sit for too long through fear of getting it wrong – which stems from the same place that the immediate gratification comes from. Never being supported in healthy decision-making processes. I also identify with immediate gratification myself and can see how it has played out in my own addictions, and also more subtly in terms of life goals as described in the lesson. If the pay off isn’t immediate why do it – the discomfort is not worth it, can't see the long term.

All or Nothing Perception

Really see this in my partner, and also share it myself. Particularly see it in his attachment to the story that he is so broken he can't be fixed. I used to challenge him on this all the time, although sadly I now start to question if it's true. However this lesson points out that that belief is cultivated almost as an excuse to not change, rather than the reality, so I guess as long as he was holding that belief then recovery was always going to be a challenge: there was always an out.

That attitude in him apparently started to shift, but I think that was part of the deception, as he knew that's what I needed to hear. It started to change as his acting out increased, so not an indicator of getting better here.

Also useful to see how this attachment to extreme thinking makes the acting out more likely as relief will be needed if things seem very heightened. I couldn't really understand why my partner would've relapsed – I can see why he may have slipped around the time of the move, but nothing really bad happened subsequently. If however everything is experienced as an extreme then emotions will be very difficult, leading to addiction to manage them. Also relate to this myself. Negative thinking creates high levels of discomfort.

Also becoming increasingly aware through my own work how trauma impacts the system and creates very difficult responses that addiction is used to manage.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:50 am 
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A. Consider the role that you have played in your partner's recovery to date. In the field below, describe these roles as they relate to:

My partner and I have been separated for over three months on my request. During that time it has become clearer and clearer to me that I need to end the relationship, which I did last week. I feel deeply, deeply sad, and it has been so painful that at times I have felt it's the wrong decision. However I know it has not been made rashly and has come from a lot of work on self. I feel in my heart I need my emotional energy for myself at this time and that I don't have it to be walking alongside someone this close to active addiction, however sincere his recovery efforts seem or are. I grew up in a dysfunctional home permeated by sexual shame and untreated trauma. I choose to not be around that now as I heal from its effects – part of that healing is this decision.

I. Effective communication


I have tried to maintain respectful and clear communication with my partner during the separation, and in the conversation we had where I told him I didn't want to be with him anymore. I have not gone into blame or attack (I did this when I first found out which is one of the reasons I asked him to leave – I didn't want to be communicating like that). At the same time I have been honest about my feelings. I have been compassionate and supportive of his recovery efforts. During the separation we agreed no contact other than practicalities. I responded to one email he sent asking for this to change early on in the separation. In this email I told him the impact his actions had had, while acknowledging that things must be hard for him too and wishing him healing. When we met this was also the approach I took, and I gave him space to talk about his experience, and he listened to mine.


II. Managing your partner's recovery

I haven't done this and have kept my hands off other than one incident. In our last conversation I did mention that I had done some research and found one expert who said that it was just as important to treat the dishonesty aspect of the behaviour as the sexual acting out. I guess this is similar to RN which emphasises values. He subsequently emailed and asked me for the name of this person, which I will give him. I notice some anxiety around this 'Will it affect his recovery positively or adversely?' but I know that I'm not in control of his journey. I could withhold the info from him but that seems a bit extreme? Other than that I haven't had any part in his recovery so far and that will continue.

II. Empowering/disempowering a pursuit of health

I feel my actions so far have been empowering in pursuit of health, in terms of the way I have been clear, honest and fair in my communication. I have no idea how my decision to end will impact my partner. He was devastated when I told him but my sense, and deep hope for him, is that it will strengthen his commitment to his recovery. I don't know though and it is not now my business. I may sound very cold here – this decision has been very painful for me, but I think it is right.



B. Consider the focus and attention that has been offered to your partner in recovery; are you gaining equal resource to heal your own wounds? If not, what can you do to ensure that your healing is considered every bit as important as your partner's recovery?

I have been taking lots of steps for my own healing. I have a new therapist who specialises in trauma, I am attending 12 step meetings that feel right for me, SLAA and WA. That last one might seem strange but it focuses on letting go of busy-ness and overdoing and really helps me be with and allow space for feelings. I have been very debilitated energy wise by what has happened and continues to happen, and it is good for me to be supported in allowing myself to rest and nurture self. I have key support people and use this forum too. I am taking time to swim and practice yoga, and have increased my spiritual practicewhich has been a real gift of this experience.


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