Recovery Nation

[brandys]

I am new here. I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now looking for awnsers, and I am still more confused than anything. I don't know if this is the right place or not, but I would like to share my story and get any support or help I can. I am so lost and hurt, and don't know where else to turn.

I meet my husband 5 yrs ago after just coming out of a very abusive relationship. It was a whirlwind romance, we quickly feel madly in love. He was everything I wanted out of a man. He was awsome with my daughter, treated me like a princess, the sweetest guy ever. We married after only knowing each other for 3 months.

The first 2 yrs went well. I discovered he liked to look at porn every once in awhile [every month or so] , and did not really see a problem with it. I considered our relationship to be great, and did not feel threatened by a little bit of porn on occasion. I never told him to stop, because I never seen it as a problem.
After having our son, our sex life dwindled down. I tryed talking to him about it, and we decided to ''spice things up''. I wore all sorts of sexy outfits, and did everything I could to try to satisfy him. During breastfeeding our son, my sex drive was non existant, but I still pleasured him to keep him happy. I think I have turned him down a total of 3 times in our 5 yr marriage. After I turned him down, he became sulky... he seen it as me not wanting him, instead of me just being exhausted and sleep deprived. Things changed a lot after the first time i turned him down.

About 4 months ago I found a text on his phone from one of his friends. It was a woman, and he was telling her how hot and sexy she was. I was hurt, and confronted him. He made it seem as though I was making a big deal out of nothing. They were just friends. I started checking up on him after that, and thats when my world came crashing down.
Turns out there was another women he was talking to... a 19 yr old girl that was a friend of a friend. they would have over 150 conversations in a month, and twice that many text. He had hung out with her a few times, and I knew nothing about it. How could I be so stupid? How could I not know what was going on right under my nose? I kicked him out, and to this day, neither will admit to doing anything sexual. THere were both lonely, and needed someone to talk to or so they say.
I started going thru the phone logs, and seeing all these strange numbers. The truth starting coming out in dribbles. First he said he only visited a few massage parlors, but that nothing happened. THen he would admit that they touched him, but says he stopped them. THen I found all the criagslist girls numbers. Yes, he admited he had seen a few, but swore that he just got a ''show'' [mutual masterbation]. I filed for divorce.
He was on his best behavior, and before long, I found myself missing him. THe kids were crying for there daddy. He was sending flowers and writing love songs and doing everything he could to swear and promise that he had told me everything, he was so sorry, he swore it would never happen again. I stopped the divorce, and we agreed to try to make it work on the basis that he would never do anything like that again.
THIS IS THE SCARY PART LADIES!!!! I had him take a lie decector test because I could not shake the felling that he was lying about what happened. The test results came back that he was BEING HONEST, and I was on cloud nine. I used a reputable company, and it was a huge relief. But still, I just couldn't shake that feeling....
Fast forward 3 months.
I always knew in my gut he had not told me the truth. I would beg and plead with him to tell me, but he always swore that was it. THen one day I checked the history on his computer, and seen he had looked at backpage and criagslist hookers again. He looked at one girl more then the rest, and he had been gone for awhile that day, so just on a hunch I called. I pretended to be another provider, and told her that I had a guy call me for a appt, and he gave her as a reference. Could she tell me if everything went ok? She assured me he was a great guy, and things went well, and told me how much I would like him. He was only there 10 mintues!! Its amazing what they can do in ten minutes.
That night I confronted him. He lied and bullshit around for about 2 hrs, but then I fed him a lil info at a time untill he cracked. He admited to going and see her, and sleeping with her. He says he used a condom. He also admited to another women last month that I knew nothing about. Said he got a bj from her. Then he went on to tell me that the earlier women he had seen, he did recive hj and bj from. So that makes a total of 8 women this yr he will admit to. I can't for the life of me believe he passed the polygraph when he was blantly lying!!! I really want my money back. LADIES>>>>> DO NOT believe polygraph results. They are not always right.
He swears that she was the first one he actually had sex with, but once again, my gut says BS. I don't know what to believ anymore, and am not even sure how many he's seen, or what he did. The truth comes out in dribbles, and I am convinced he will never tell me the truth.
He told me he had a sex addiction, and needed help and support. He has started seeing a therepist, and I made him sign a post nup stating if he did it again, he loses his intrest in the family home.
I have been doing a lot of reading on here, and some books... out of the shadows, and he danced alone.
My problem is that while I believe sex addiction is a real problem, I don't believe thats what he has. Sure, he looks at porn maybe once a month, and he has cheated on me with hookers, but he doesn't seem to engage in any of the other bahaviors that other SA do. He doesn't have a ritual, He is not obsessed with sex. Heck, he very rarly every want to have sex with me. I am still young and attractive and fit, so I know its not me, so I don't understand what the problem is.
I am just so confused. I am almost to the point of wishing he would do it again, just so I can leave him and be done with all of this. BUt I still love him and want us to work, but I also know in my gut he will do it again. WHat do I do? What to belive?
I almost think he is using this SA as a excuse for his actions. Someone, please help me.

[12Peace]

Hi Brandy

I am so sorry for you are going through. From the story you write I would say yes, he has an addiction/compulsion...whatever you want to call it. Labels aren't as important as the effect it's had on you, him and your relationship.

It is true that some people can falsely pass a lie detector test...that's why they can't be held up in court. But good for you for doing what you could to try and get the truth!

It sounds like you have taken some great steps to educate yourself on the addiction/compulsion and to protect yourself (post-nup, family home).

I wanted to say that sex addicts are very good at hiding their addiction. I too never realized that my ex-H was obsessed with sex. We rarely had it...when I initiated he turned me down, and he only initiated once every month or so. He didn't want to have sex with me, because he was getting it elsewhere. For them the sex isn't about intimacy...it's about the high, the fix. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Still, to this day, I am unaware of my ex-H's cycles and rituals. But, I know he had them. If your husband goes through recovery it may be a long time before you are privy to his inner world and workings of those rituals. But don't discount them as not existing...not yet!

For the time being, I hope you begin the workshop here on RN. I know you have been reading here for a while, but doing the work and answering the questions can offer another perspective and a better insight.

Again, I am so sorry for what your husband has put you through. You sound like a very strong woman and I am glad that you have found RN to help build that strength. Remember that labels are not as important as the impact this has had on you.

Welcome.

[stillfree]

First of all, yes, you are definitely in the right place. You have a lot on your emotional plate right now, and there amazing women here that can help guide you in your journey.

Don't beat yourself up over not knowing all this time what was going on. I have a degree in psychology and have done a lot of research work on lie detector tests, and they are much easier to beat than you think, especially if he is able to convince himself that what he is saying is the truth, and it sounds like he can do that. This is very common with SAs. A good lot of them don't realize they're lying because they so badly want to believe what they are telling you.

I hope you have considered using the workshop here, to help you do some healing of your own. It will help you understand why he is the way he is, and it will help you live healthy regardless of what he chooses to do. I know it's overwhelming, but keep coming back here.

You're a strong woman, and you, too, will find your way.

[12Peace]

Sorry, I wanted to add...that many SA's use the addiction title as an excuse for their actions. But regardles...that is unacceptable. There may be a reason, but there is no excuse. Don't allow the addiction to excuse the behaviour! If he in recovery he needs to accept that.

[nellie james]

Dear Brandy,
Whether your H has an addiction or not doesn't really matter at this point. What matters is the impact his deceit and acting out have had on you and your relationship. He has a problem, no doubt about that. The label doesn't matter, the damage caused does. It is good that he is seeking help - a start.

My H knew for years that something was wrong with his behavior, but he never allowed himself to face himself. Even during couples counseling and the first few RN lessons, he denied much of his behavior patterns, his destructive choices, and the extent of it, and never thought he had sexual rituals. He believed his own version of the truth which was an illusion/delusion. It's a common addict mindset to deny, minimize, omit, deflect - anything to protect themselves and their addiction. This can all change, if the addict will do the work, but that is totally his responsibility.

You have taken amazing steps to protect and defend yourself - now if you take that same energy and apply it to healing yourself, and, believe, me there is a lot to heal, you will have a new focus - A HEALTHY YOU. Once the high of having done the detective work, the legal work, etc., passes, the emotional impact will still be there - the hurt, the grief, the anger. I strongly encourage you to do the RN Partners Lessons for yourself. It will give you insight into the nature of SA, how it works, and how we partners can learn to deal with the aftermath and become stronger and healthier with or without our H's.

Best of luck on this journey. I am so glad that you found your way to RN.
The partners here are so wonderfully wise and empathetic.

Nellie James

[brandys]

Thank you all so much for your replys. It really helps to know I am not alone, and that others understand how I feel. I plan on starting the workshop tonight.
TO awnser the queation of ''why'' it matters to me.... I guess it matters because if he has a actual addiction, if this is something he can't help, then I feel like I should stay and be supportive and there might be hope he can change. If he is just a loser that likes the thrill of other women, then there is no hope for us and I am just setting myself up for failure.

I can't shake the feeling that it is only a matter of time before he does it again. Its making me crazy. I feel like I always have to snoop, I can't trust anything he says. He doesn't really seem very sorry for his actions, and he likes to deflect and turn things around on me. There are times I really wondered if I WAS crazy.

I can't seem to focus on myself because I am always worried about him. Everytime he steps out of the house i have to fight the urge to follow him. Everyday I check his phone records, his computer. I am turing into a crazy obseesive lady, and i don't like myself, but have no idea how to stop either. I feel like I am just waiting for him to mess up again. ANd that thought makes me feel fear.... fear that I really want him to mess up again so I can leave him, and fear that he might really do it and that I will be hurt again.
I have taken some time off work to deal with this, but I have to go back next week. I work nights [12 hrs shifts] and I am terrified of what he will be doing while I am gone.
How do you get even a little bit of trust back so you can function normally?
I know nothing I do will matter, he will do it or not, but if he does do it, I WANT TO KNOW. I don't want to be with him any more if he has been with others. I can't do it anymore. And I know he won't tell me if he does, so it seems like I have to snoop. Maybe this should be a seperate thread? ''how to not kill yourself snooping on you SA''.
And how do you get the images of him with others out of your head. Everytime I look at him I see him climbing on top of her.... her pics on line show her naked, so I get a very good image. I am still having sex with him..... I keep hoping maybe if I do this or that, he won't ''need'' to go elsewhere. But I know that BS, I gave him a bj and screwed him not 10 hrs before he went to see her.
I am really falling apart here. Somedays I don't even want to be here anymore. But then I think of my kids, and I have to go on for them.
WHY? can't anyone tell me WHY he does this stuff? I just don't understand.

[stillfree]

Boy, do I hear so much of myself in your last comment. Follow the suggestion of the workshop - don't try and make final decisions right now. Get started on the workshop, give yourself time to get yourself straight. The best thing you can do for yourself is focus on YOU right now. I know it's hard. It took me a long time to figure out what that meant, but you need to get yourself healthy, regardless of whether or not he does it again, whether or not he has an addiction or not.

The hardest thing to grasp is that you can't control him. You really will drive yourself insane if you focus on trying to follow him, catch him, etc. This will continue to make you crazy.

Big hugs. I now this is hard. Find a moment to just breathe and remember that taking care of you is most important right now.

[12Peace]

brandy...breathe, my dear. Take a deep breath.

At the moment, you can't and shouldn't trust him. That is the worst thing to hear...I know! But it is the sad truth. Right now, he will lie, deflect, blame-shift, minimize, anything to not take respsonsibility for his actions. This was hard for me, because trust is vital...to relationships and to life. But right now...he doesn't deserve it.

I was right where you are. I felt the exact same way...if it wasn't an addiction I was outta there. As you go through the workshop and read the exercises you will most likely see a lot of your husband in the descriptions and that will help you understand where he is coming from and what you are dealing with. I promise!

I also felt from the beginning that it was only a matter of time before he did it again. I part of me was also waiting for it..wanting it, because then I felt I had a "real" reason to leave him...as if what he had already done wasn't enough of a reason. You are in so much pain right now and this is all horrible and fresh. Leaving would protect you possible future hurt, yes, but it will not make you feel better right now.

Those desires to investigate are powerful, but are consuming and destructive as well. If you need to do it, put some limits on yourself.

Brandy...your having sex with him or not, will not convince him to not act out. No matter what you did to please him, he will still have the addiction. His acting out has NEVER had anything to do with what you had to offer him, what you were willing to do, how often you had sex or what kind of sex you had. You could have had the best, most amazing sex everyday and he would still have the addiction and would have still chosen his way of acting out. If you don't want to have sex with him...don't! You will not keep him there by having sex, and you will not end his addiction by having sex.

Those images take a long time to leave you. For me...that was a killer. I couldn't stand it. It hurt so much to have those images in my head, everday, all day. At times it was consuming and all I could do was cry. At night I would lay there crying, picturing him...with them. It killed me. Now...I have left my husband and we are no longer together. It's been 8 months since my last D-Day and 5 months since I left him. Those images...they rarely come now. And when they do, I am so much better now at pushing them out. I don't know if this was simply time, or if it's because I left. But from my perspective, I would say yes...those horrible images will fade...in time.

It all takes time. The last thing you want to hear, I am sure. But time helps. And so does the workshop. It saved me. The RN workshop was such a gift and I will be forever grateful for it's existance. And for the women here and the coaches.

Why does he do this? The workshop will help you with that one. It's not an easy answer, and reality will not necessarily make you feel better. Simply, because it's an addiction. Because he learned to count on the feelings he gets from sex to make him feel better. Because he made those acts and the feelings from the acts, more important than anything else. Because he no longer knows how to stop. And that is why he needs to go through recovery. Without recovery, he will never have the tools to stop, nor will he have the tools to live a healthy life.

That is his job. His recovery is in his hands...it's his responsibility. Your responsibility to be there for yourself. Take care of yourself, heal from this devestating pain. It's a long journey...but if you put in the work...you will get there.

Just breathe.

[nellie james]

Hi again.

You can't change his behavior, only he can do that. You can't keep track of his every moment either. It's crazy-making. You can only take care of you, and right now that means your emotional health.

The detective thing can become obsessive and the way to stop it is, first start your RN lessons. Second, when you feel the urge to be the detective, change your focus. What you think about is what you will do. Sometimes, counting backward or saying a nursery rhyme will help until you can begin an activity that will occupy you so you don't obsess. Sounds silly, but it works. I sing songs to myself when I find myself falling into old patterns that aren't healthy for me. Then I do an activity that doesn't take a lot of thinking. I dance, sing, walk, vacuum, wash a load of laundry, weed the yard. It's like any habit, you have to work to break it. And please know that many of us have had to become detectives to reveal the truth - we don't like that role because it's not who we are. Letting that detective mindset go is an important step for your health now. RN lessons will teach you how to be aware but not obsessive about your H's behavior patterns.

You have brought his problem into the open. That's good. Now that you know, and he knows you know, the next step is to go forward with your life. RN will help you do that in very contructive ways. Eventually, your lessons will be about your values and boundaries to protect those values.

In the meantime, you and your behavior are what's important, for you and your children. They will need a strong healthy mother. I encourage you to keep that date with yourself tonight and start your first RN lesson.

Nellie James

[forlife]

edit

[12Peace]

[nellie james]

A beautiful post, Forlife. We need to be reminded that many of our H's are "broken men who got lost along the way." You and your story are inspirational examples to the women here, especially those who are suffering the initial trauma and all that goes with it.

Thanks.

NJ

[forlife]

12peace - you made the decision that was best for you. i don't mean to knock anyway who has left and I'm so sorry you took it that way. I think it takes incredible courage to leave in order to protect yourself. - that is growing balls too. Sometimes its easier to stay and turn a blind eye. That's what I did before the first d day for 8 years. I knew he was dishonest and looked at porn. I just didn't know the extent of his betrayal and when I found out I knew i had to stand up for myself. If he hadn't responded the way he did I would have left - and who knows - I still may be naive, time will tell.

That's why these lessons are so important - they help us figure out for ourselves the right choice. The right choice is different for each of us. I respect you, 12peace, for what you have accomplished and your posts always give me much to weigh.

I just wanted brandys to know there was a different way of looking at all this than what she is thinking right now - and this way helped me. It took me away from feeling like the victim - and 'not enough'. It took me away from obsessing about his where abouts and the multitudes of horrible images ( that i still struggle with sometimes but less and less) I remind myself this is everything HE DID TO HIMSELF not intentionally to me. But this is just my life and everyone's is different.

sorry - 12peace - for not writing that in the first place.
forlife

[12Peace]

hey forlife...I didn't think you were knocking me for leaving! I was winking at ya!

I guess being on the other side now, I can remember those feelings of guilt and shame that partners can feel at even the thought of leaving their addicted spouse. I felt like a horrible person at the beginning because I wanted to leave! I just hate the idea of other women feeling that shame and guilt, when really there is nothing to be ashamed or guilty about! I didn't mean you were knocking me or shaming...just that there is no shame in that decision!

I think it was pretty amazing that you were able to point out to your husband the ways his addiction has hurt himself. Distancing ourselves from their actions is extremely difficult and I am impressed that you were able to separate from it as you were. In my ex-H's first therapy session - which I attended for accountability purposes - the therapist asked him what consequences he had suffered from his addiction while in college. My ex-H didn't have the ability to see any damage to himself. His response was "well, I wasn't in a relationship then, so there were no consequences...everything was great!". He saw no disconnection from his values or his worth as a person...just that he could do what he wanted without a wife or partner being hurt by it!

I agree that the addict hurts themselves greatly by their addiction and their acting out. Yes he did do it to himself and not intentionally to you (us), but I also don't want to discount the pain they cause us...intentionally or not. I know my ex-H's cheating on me and viewing 'child pornography' was not done to cause me pain...but it did...immensely. I personally think it's very important for the partners to acknowledge and honour their pain and find their own way through it. I guess I wasn't sure if you were trying to say "they're only hurting themselves". I totally didn't mean to sound accusatory!!

It sounds like you and your husband are doing very well in your healing and recovery...I wouldn't say you are being naive...you know what to look for, you are keeping your values as your priority and you have boundaries in place to protect them! That's not being naive! That's being strong and realistic.

[brandys]

He is just a loser.

I found some more pics on the computer last night. These were attachments in a email. Pretty naked girl. Young girl...18 or 19 maybe.
Also found a few more but these looked like proffesional shots of different women.

I confronted hubby asking who she was. Once again, ''she looks familiar but I don't remember''. These pics are about a yr old, I had somehow just always missed them before.

Once again, I beg and plead for the truth.Once again, he can't remember anything else. HE told me he is going to stop going to therepy. He doesn't beleive he is a SA. He said he used to look at porn and MB about everyday, but that he hasn't done that in 4 months, so that proves he wasn't addicted. If he was addicted, he would not be able to stop so easily. He promises never to do it again. Yeah, right.

I feel so lost and hopeless. I know its just a matter of time before he does it again. At the same tie, I can't seem to find the strengh to leave. How did my life ever end up like this?
Thank you all for your kinds words and support. I am not sure if I belong here anymore, but don't know where else I belong either.

I asked him to get rid of my nude pics, and he won't do it. I don't want him to have them anymore.