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 Post subject: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:14 am
Posts: 5
Hi everyone,

I'd like to say that I'm free from porn and masturb. addiction which took over 30 years.
My sobriety is over one year. I have been using two means - prayer at the time of temptation, urge and promises, vows given to God that I won't act out during definite time period. My first promis was for some hours, then I extended the promised sober time. My current promise will have finished in two years. My main means to keep the promises is prayer. In addition to it I develope my faith by reading the Bible, attending church and being in a religious group.
With all these means God crushed my addiction.


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:13 pm 
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General Mentor

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
Posts: 694
Hello Mr Eko and welcome to Recovery Nation!

I see this is your first post. I hope you will start a thread and do the RN workshop, you might find it extremely beneficial in complementing your efforts thus far. You might be surprised to see that some of the techniques you've developed and that worked for you are to be found in the lessons about urge control. Here on RN we make a distinction between abstinence and transitioning to health. The first one designates abstaining from a certain behaviour, stopping oneself through will power while the latter means developing a vision for one's life, changing perceptions and core beliefs, understanding oneself and the role addiction has played in one's life. Abstinence is temporary while transitioning to health is more permanent in nature. The RN workshop guides our efforts into attaining the second state. It should be more of a growth instead of a battle with oneself. I truly believe you can find a lot of value in the workshop and I'm looking forward to reading your thread.

Wishing you well,
Ursula

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:14 am
Posts: 5
Thanks Ursula for your kind invitation to the recovery lessons.
It's only one problem.
When I was enslaved by the addiction I felt that I need help and I didn't know clearly where to look for it.
Now, I feel cured and know very well where to find help and what to do to keep improving my life in all its aspects and how to stay sober.
This all above I found in my church, in faith , in God and His word.
Because of this I named this thread - faith-based recovery.
I don't seek anymore,
I only wanted to say to the addicts here on this forum - hey, I was an addict and this is my past. Ihave a new life now and am able to improve myself and stay away from addictions effectively because I found an effective means to quit and to stay in a permament recovery.
My aim is to help here anybody who needs help and wants to get to know how I did it.
I'm more than sure that every one can be cured if they implement exactly what I did.
But I don't want to pester anybody with my experience and myself therefore if nobody ask me I'll remain silent.


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:02 am 
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General Mentor

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:47 pm
Posts: 694
Hi there, Mr Eko, it's nice to hear from you.

Mr Eko wrote:
My aim is to help here anybody who needs help and wants to get to know how I did it.

This is praisable, wanting to share your experience and meaning with others. Even for me, a huge part of my motivation is to support others on their path to health. So, I commend you on it.

I do understand that you feel cured. I'm not going to contest that. It's just something you said in the first post that made me raise an eyebrow ;) more specifically this
Mr Eko wrote:
My first promis was for some hours, then I extended the promised sober time. My current promise will have finished in two years.

This sounds like a temporary patch. What then after these two years? You'd be free of your promise, as in not owing anything anymore ... Free to go back to it or make another promise. What will you choose? How can you know you will choose health?
So, this didn't really sound like a permanent recovery and it made me wonder. But then you also said this
Mr Eko wrote:
In addition to it I develope my faith by reading the Bible, attending church and being in a religious group.

So, it seems that you found a lot of meaning in your religion and support in your religious community. This is in line with what we encourage people here on RN to do: to find what matters most in their lives and develop those values. By growing your values, following a routine and being part of a supportive community you can indeed build the skills needed to eliminate unhealthy coping mechanims from your life, i.e. addiction.

So, I don't really know if you've really transitioned to health by building on your values and skills to uphold those values or if you are only abstaining from acting out. That only you can assess and only if you understand the distinction and if you are extremely honest with yourself. If you choose to do the RN workshop you would learn these things and a lot more. This is why I was so strongly welcoming you to RN :) because I do believe you could learn a lot and strengthen your efforts. However, I do accept what you say, that you found what you've been looking for and it works for you. I'm actually glad for you if that's the case.

Mr Eko wrote:
I'm more than sure that every one can be cured if they implement exactly what I did.

If it were that easy, Mr Eko, but unfortunately, it's not. Not all people are religious, not all people give spirituality so much space and meaning in their lives and I dare say prayer doesn't work the same even for the religious ones. For all these people there is still a chance to get healthy by understanding their behaviours (the need for addiction and how it plays out) and by building strong values and learning how to pursue them (pretty much how you say you've done).

In conclusion, the invitation to the workshop remains open, of course, if you ever find meaning and value in putting in such effort towards self-knowledge and learning. There is more to RN than discarding addiction from your life :)

I wish you all the best!

_________________
"A wholehearted attention feels like the nurturing presence that I always wished I had in a parent. Now I am free to be there for myself in a way that I assumed I needed from someone else." Tara Bennett-Goleman, Emotional Alchemy


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:14 am
Posts: 5
Hi Ursula,

Thanks for your answer.
What will I do after my current promise has finished? - The next one, but more extended in time. For example for 5 years....
What is a permament recovery for me?
As you know, every former addict can relaps even after 10, 20 ...or more years of his soberness or recovery. So writting that I'm cured doesn't mean that I haven't thoughts to return to the addiction, that I'm not tempted, that I never do it...
You, I assume, a specialist know very well that all sober addicts stay in a constant danger to relaps. Therefore they must do their recovery process all the time till their death. The day when they cease to do it will be the first day of their destruction.
Writing that I'm cured means to me that I don't have to act out, this is not a nessecity for me any more. What does it mean understand only the addicted. I don't know if you were addicted. If not, I clear this so - When I was addicted it was very painful for me to remain in soberness and new healthy habits of life, especially after 1 month time. All my body, psyche persuaded me to relaps to experience some unearthly pleasure, if only for few hours.... It was painful for me to remain sober.
Now it's not panful any more, now every day I'm joyful, feeling inner deep freedom.... It's God's grace His gift. That I call - being cured. My will is not enslaved any more.
You ask what will I choose after 2 years have passed.
We don't know future and what we do then. If I am silly and don't do my recovery in my church, faith now I will choose relaps. If I am wise and are do my recovery continuously then I'll choose the next promise.
You know you surely don't know whether any person in recovery now chooses recovery next month, year.... Nobody knows. We all are free, to condemnation and hell too.
We all on a temporary path. Do you know what your decisions will be in a year, two.... how will you react...? All is temporary. Nobody and no method can ensure your freedom or neverending recovery.
Why a temporary promise and not a permament one?
Because temporary promises I can keep and an all life promise would be for me unpossible. The addicts mustn't promise for too long because they have not enough power to keep it.
Whether my approach is only for believers?
No, it's for all. Because an unbeliever can always change their mind and become a believer.
What would you choose? To be a non religious addict for the whole life time or to become a believer, using the means which faith gives,in order to be set free by God?
Thanks for your repeated invitation.
I answer this way. Imagine, you have just had a copious meal. Would you receive an invitation to MacDonald's now?


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 am
Posts: 849
Location: Sweden
Hi Eko

Quote:
As you know, every former addict can relaps even after 10, 20 ...or more years of his soberness or recovery. So writting that I'm cured doesn't mean that I haven't thoughts to return to the addiction, that I'm not tempted, that I never do it...
You, I assume, a specialist know very well that all sober addicts stay in a constant danger to relaps. Therefore they must do their recovery process all the time till their death. The day when they cease to do it will be the first day of their destruction.


Well yes and no. A return to addictive behaviours and compulsiveness is always an option for us recoverers, we've been there before and know that it's possible. But we're not in constanst danger. Here at RN we don't believe that addiction is something that needs to be feared and that we always have a choice in every situation and thus, every time we trigger ourselves we have the opportunity to strengthen our values and our core identity. There are many of us here that have used this method and mind-set and now don't fear addiction, although we of course respect the potency of addiction because of our experience. We here at RN also don't believe that you need to do recovery your entire life, in fact, that would also be unhealthy, because that would mean that one still hasn't replaced addictive behaviour with healthy behaviour and is still struggling with urges and fear. We know other recovery programs do teach this idea, that addiction is always lurking and needs a constant watchful eye, but we don't teach that here.

As for being an expert on addiction and what it entails, I don't think the there's a single accepted definition of what addiction is. Some see it as a disease (as do you), some see it as an ingrained patrtern of behaviour (as does RN) and others see it as a genetic disposition, and so on.

Quote:
Writing that I'm cured means to me that I don't have to act out, this is not a nessecity for me any more. What does it mean understand only the addicted. I don't know if you were addicted. If not, I clear this so - When I was addicted it was very painful for me to remain in soberness and new healthy habits of life, especially after 1 month time. All my body, psyche persuaded me to relaps to experience some unearthly pleasure, if only for few hours.... It was painful for me to remain sober.
Now it's not panful any more, now every day I'm joyful, feeling inner deep freedom.... It's God's grace His gift. That I call - being cured. My will is not enslaved any more.
You ask what will I choose after 2 years have passed.
We don't know future and what we do then. If I am silly and don't do my recovery in my church, faith now I will choose relaps. If I am wise and are do my recovery continuously then I'll choose the next promise.


We also teach that what's symptomatic of an addict is the overreliance on one or a couple of behaviours or areas of his or her life for emotional management. There is nothing inherently wrong with using sex as comfort for example, but if sex is used compulsively to manage one's life and it's ups and downs, then that's not healthy. According to the workshop at this site, it is also not healthy to switch one type of compulsive behaviour for another. I'm not saying that you are displaying a compulsive behaviour but it seems that you're very reliant on your religion to balance your life. In the end, addiction is just a symptom of the fact that one is struggling with life and it's ups and downs. If you switch one compulsive behaviour for another, like for example switching from sex to food or from sex to work, one still haven't gotten to the core issue. One may have switched from a less socially accepted behaviour to another, but in all likelihood, one is still over reliant on a compulsive set of behaviors and is still searching for external emotional stimulus to comfort yourself, there's no deeper search for meaning. I'm not saying that you have simply replaced one compulsion from another, but I certainly get that type of vibe from your post. Please disregard what I'm saying if you feel that I'm wrong.

Quote:
You know you surely don't know whether any person in recovery now chooses recovery next month, year.... Nobody knows. We all are free, to condemnation and hell too.


Here at RN we teach that a large part of what feeds addictive behaviours is shame and fear and that freedom comes from letting go of fear and shame for a while until recoverers grow more emotionally mature. A key tenet in the workshop is also that fear and shame based recovery will probably never lead to a healthy recovery. It will most probably lead to a constant relapse-shame-recovery-relapse-shame-recovery-etc cycle, because such a recovery is fundamentally about avoidance of something than moving towards something else, something healthy. RN has no religious stance and anyone with almost any set of values can achieve recovery by using the workshop, be they religious or atheists, but regardless we tell people to focus on the pros of health rather than the cons of addiction.

Quote:
We all on a temporary path. Do you know what your decisions will be in a year, two.... how will you react...? All is temporary. Nobody and no method can ensure your freedom or neverending recovery.


Not correct. You can always ensure freedom and health. There may be slips and relapses along the way, but a constant progression is possible if a person really wants it.

Quote:
Because temporary promises I can keep and an all life promise would be for me unpossible. The addicts mustn't promise for too long because they have not enough power to keep it.


Not correct. An addict is and have always been in control of his or her addiction. The workshop spends a lot of its lessons to teach people the fundamentals of identifying addiction's role in our lives, how and why we use it, it's intricacies and lastly, how to identify that we are in control and how to make decisions in a healthy way. That doesn't mean that people are perfect. Even the best intentioned slip and relapse, but if they are devoted to recovery they learn more and more about their addiction from every slip and relapse and move closer to taking charge of their own lives and making the right decisions.

Also, the term power is somewhat irrelevant. A lot of addicts are strong willed and achieve wondrous things in life, fuelled by the awesome emotional stimulus that is addiction. If addiction had been about power, or more specifically will-power, then addiction wouldn't exist as the same type of problem. We teach addicts that a large part of addictive behavior is a faulty method for making decisions, where people feel they are out of control although they still are, they just don't know it. Without that knowledge, will-power and mental strength is a bit wasted when it comes to making healthy decisions in the face of a urge.

Quote:
No, it's for all. Because an unbeliever can always change their mind and become a believer.
What would you choose? To be a non religious addict for the whole life time or to become a believer, using the means which faith gives,in order to be set free by God?


I'm glad that you have found a way that seems to be working for you, but I hope that you can respect that this is not a good place to try to convert people and that there are many other places for such activities. Again, the RN workshop provides an opportunity for anyone to recover, regardless of spiritual affinity. The guy who founded the site and wrote the workshops was a very religious guy and had plans for recovery workshops where faith could be included as a fundamental part, for those more comfortable with that type of approach. But RN is for everyone and the workshop teaches that what is important for you will help you to recover and what is important for me, will help me recover. You don't seem to belive in this, which is completely ok, there are many ways to recover and each to their own, so to speak, as long as it's healthy.

But seeing as your view on addiction and recovery seems to be so different in many ways from what RN teaches, it begs the question, what made you come here and write these posts?

:g:


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:14 am
Posts: 5
Hi CoachMartin,
Quote:
You don't seem to belive in this,
You're right, I don't believe in recoverynation approach, I believe only in God and His approach.
Quote:
But RN is for everyone and the workshop teaches that what is important for you will help you to recover and what is important for me, will help me recover.
If it is true, what I now don't believe taking it from your post, then it is the place for me too because as you said - what is important for you -for example one's faith - will help you to recover. If it's truly tought by recoverynation then you should say - Yes, Mr Eko, if the faith is important for you, this will help you to recover, so be welcome here with your approach. It's logical, isn't it?
Quote:
But seeing as your view on addiction and recovery seems to be so different in many ways from what RN teaches, it begs the question, what made you come here and write these posts?
I could write here once again why I did it, but maybe you could simply read my second post more closely - 3th line from the bottom.
Quote:
Not correct
What is not correct in your approach can be quite correct in another one. So, it's not compatibel to our system - better to say.
Quote:
I'm not saying that you have simply replaced one compulsion from another,
I think you had the above thoughts. I know you don't believe it but faith is not compulsion or some addition to life, it's freedom and joy.
Quote:
I'm glad that you have found a way that seems to be working for you, but I hope that you can respect that this is not a good place to try to convert people and that there are many other places for such activities
This is a place to recover from the addiction and as you said but it seems you don't believe it -the workshop teaches that what is important for you will help you to recover and what is important for me, will help me recover.

But, no problem, as I said when nobody wants I remain silent. This was my last post.


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:35 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 1626
Hi Mr. Eko,

Just to clarify a few things, since you seemed to take offense to Martin's post. As Martin repeatedly said, RN values both religious and secular approaches; what matters is that you determine where you find meaning. If you find that meaning in God and his approach, that is fine. The workshop will then teach you the skills necessary to start to make healthy decisions in your day to day life, based on that belief.

Quote:
If it is true, what I now don't believe taking it from your post, then it is the place for me too because as you said - what is important for you -for example one's faith - will help you to recover. If it's truly tought by recoverynation then you should say - Yes, Mr Eko, if the faith is important for you, this will help you to recover, so be welcome here with your approach. It's logical, isn't it?


This is what Martin is saying, and this is our approach. You are welcome here, if you choose to be here. You are also free to choose another program aside from RN. Martin was simply stating our approach to recovery, which includes both religious and non-religious approaches.

However, because RN is open to anyone and we want to keep this board a safe place where people feel accepted regardless of what they believe, we do not support statements saying that someone must believe in order to recover, as you said here:

Quote:
No, it's for all. Because an unbeliever can always change their mind and become a believer.
What would you choose? To be a non religious addict for the whole life time or to become a believer, using the means which faith gives,in order to be set free by God?


You are free to believe what you want in your own recovery and tell others what has worked for you here; however, it is not okay to tell people that they must believe or else they will never end their addiction, or to impose your values or beliefs on others. That is the difference here. Consider if this was flipped around: if someone who was non-religious told you that if you believed in God, you would never recover from addiction. Would you listen to them? No...nor should you. We must all find what works for us and what we connect with. There are many people who are atheists and non-believers who have made a full transition to health; there are also many people who believe in God (or Gods), and made a full transition to health. What matters is that you determine what you believe and learn to derive meaning and purpose from it. That is what we believe. We don't tell people what to value or believe ourselves; we guide people (including yourself) towards finding their own path.

Quote:
What is not correct in your approach can be quite correct in another one. So, it's not compatibel to our system - better to say.


Compulsive behaviour works the same for anyone, whether you believe in God or not, no matter what approach you use. There are correct and incorrect ways of understanding it, neither of which have anything to do with what an individual believes. Belief only comes into play in terms of deriving the positive emotional stimulation necessary to act based on long-term value (which you for you may be God's will) versus immediate emotional gratification.

Quote:
But, no problem, as I said when nobody wants I remain silent. This was my last post.


I hope you will reconsider, as RN, I believe, has much to offer your recovery, in the context of your own beliefs. However, if that is your choice, I wish you well on your path in the future. :g:

Boundless

_________________
"If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where do you expect to find it?" - Dogen

"Be a lamp unto yourself." - Buddha

"The obstacle is the path."


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 Post subject: Re: faith-based recovery
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:14 am
Posts: 5
Hi everyone,

I've dropped only to say that I have been free and sober for over two years now. Almost 800 days till today's date. So the approach, described by my in the above, works effectively without much effort. I am free.


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