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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 61
Exercise 1: I guess I should point out this is not the first time I have been here. I was here with an ex of mine, so all past posts from, I believe, around 2011 and back was from another PA partner that I was with for three years. I guess it took me five months of being with him to start to think he was a PA. I had warned him that I had been with a PA previously within our first few dates, so I never thought I would be in this position again. I was wrong. Within the first few months with him, there were plenty, and I mean plenty of signs that something was going on with his phone, i.e., talking to exes or porn...I couldn't figure out which because I knew exes he was still either friends with or having to deal with because of baggage. I chose the later to believe, that it was the exes. Problem was I should have trusted my gut and believed both was going on at the time. Whether he was talking to his two exes behind my back for whatever reason, it didn't matter, that broke my trust, and as for the porn, well, we all know how I felt about that.

He told me he didn't think he had a problem back in October when I had strongly believed he did. I told him if he didn't have a problem, then give it up for three months.....well, he gave up the crude, disgusting crap, but he found other outlets, i.e., phone porn apps, craigslist strippers (just to look at, not buy for a night), sexually explicit movies to get off to when I wasn't home. Here we are now. Last date of discovery for me was February 20th, 2013. I had told him previous to that last discovery that I was done if he messed up, and I here I still am.

The feelings I felt since October, well, I guess it would be to feel in my heart why put me through all this pain when you knew I had already been with a PA before? He says he didn't know he had issues. That's hard to believe when he was looking at every single day when I met him. But I have to think in my head, I guess, that just maybe he was that much in denial. I feel like I'm going through the motions and waiting for him to catch up with me with emotional maturity, learning to take responsibility for himself more, and learning to communicate more about himself and his true thoughts and feelings. Will that all ever happen? I don't know. Maybe that's why I finally started doing my workshop, while I'm waiting to see how things go and which way he chooses, why not work on myself more and stop concentrating on him and his addiction as much as I do. (Which, yes, I learned last time) Sometimes it's just hard to give up when you are so emotionally vested in a person, especially this time around, because I can see the ball coming before he even has a clue, just by his actions, how he takes communication in, how he changes his life, not just with me but with others around him, like is he opening up important communication with his children, his siblings, me? Does he seem to be reaching deeper down to give true vulnerable thoughts or just hiding it by giving me what he has always given me, plus add a bone here and there, (what I like to call giving me the minimum) i.e., my big thought I gave you for the week was I thought about masturbating after we fought. I found out that is a trigger.

While I do love the honesty and would never chastise him the littlest bit of honesty that he is willing to give me, I also have to speak up and say that I know there is more deeper and vulnerable thoughts to this addictive process in your head than just that. He likes to tell me that it's just that simple, and he doesn't have much more to give me than that. Well, I must say, I do consider myself an intelligent woman, and, yes, after the second person with this problem and not that I'm comparing them, but I have been through lots of googling and reading up on books and this site and other sites, I know better than "It's just that simple." I know this addiction poisons the mind. I'm not stupid. I feel like he wants me to just throw all my knowledge and instinct out the door because he tells me there is no issues, no urges, no problems because I have no proof. Well, he has never come to me yet and said he has screwed up, so now why should I believe he has the cleanest addict mind I have ever seen. Am I really to believe that his mind only goes into scumbagville when it has to do with a monitor? Am I really to just say I'm that stupid? That's what I feel like I'm doing to myself if I accept that that is his truth and his vulnerability and his communication with me. He expects me to stay and work on this relationship, well, I need to see that open line of communication and see him become vulnerable, too. I can't be the only one sitting here so vulnerable to get hurt again and him, I feel, still not letting me truly in. It's not fair, and soon or later, if I feel like his mind is betraying me and he isn't being open, then I guess I will have to make decision on my own accord then.

They say the mind is the hardest part with the addict because they can protect it so easily and after so much habitual imaging and objectifying, the thoughts can come in so fast and easy. Why is it that my PA is perfectly clean and devoid of any mind problems, or the better question yet, does that just show me that he truly only wants to recover on the surface and not where it matters most, in his mind and core? I guess this time around it's a different feeling for me. This time I feel as though I'm trying to understand if I have a true partner that means what he says and does what he means or not. I have been through the emotions before. I have been through all the discovery processes before. This time I think it's about just being aware and open with him to find out where exactly he wants to be in this recovery process. This time I am not going to go 15 rounds in the ring again. It's wrong of him to ask me to do so and it's wrong of me to ask myself to do so. I don't need proof to know that he is taking it serious. All I need to do is watch his behaviors and to be aware of if he is changing and how he is changing.

My biggest point here and what I learned too late last time was it doesn't matter what you prove he is doing or isn't doing and how long a period that might go for. The only way to know if your PA is on a true path to recovery is to actually see it in him, how he changes, how he relates to people differently than he would before (his family, friends, children), how he relates to being out in public (around hot chicks as he so loves to put it all the time), how he spends his time in recovery (if he is truly interested in his reading material and workshops or just jots stuff down to get through it), is he opening up his "true" feelings, (talking about his addiction and urges and thoughts and how his addict mind might process things or hiding all of it and saying he doesn't have any issues but just has triggers to masturbate when he fights with me). I find myself always searching his eyes, I do know the way to someone's soul is always through their eyes. I still see clouds there. What those clouds mean I have yet to find out. I guess this was what was on my mind at the point of discovery and now months later what is on my mind now.

Thank you all for keeping this site going. I don't know what I would have done if I dropped by after this new PA and you weren't here anymore. The support that I receive here goes beyond words. I might just be starting my lessons now, but I have been posting and reading others' posts here for months on and off.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:45 am 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:19 pm
Posts: 452
Dear Isabelle -

Welcome back to Recovery Nation. I'm sorry that you find yourself here again and with a different partner. But it is good that you've come back and are again and that you are ready to heal.

Quote:
Why is it that my PA is perfectly clean and devoid of any mind problems, or the better question yet, does that just show me that he truly only wants to recover on the surface and not where it matters most, in his mind and core? I guess this time around it's a different feeling for me. This time I feel as though I'm trying to understand if I have a true partner that means what he says and does what he means or not.


I'm not sure how far you were able to get in the workshop the last time you were here, but, through the workshop you will learn that recovery does not just "happen" and a PWA (person with addiction) cannot just "will away" the addiction. It takes learning to live a values based life combine with action plans and much, much more, for the addict to recover. Thus, you are right to trust your gut - when what he is saying doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. I would say that your partner is not in recovery.

But right now, your own healing must be your first priority! Take the time to really take in what the lessons here are teaching and you will be amazed at the growth and healing that will occur within yourself. You are what is most important. Turn your focus off of your partner and his addiction and place it onto you. He will either do the work that's needed to recover or he won't.

Coaches and/or mentors will check in on your healing thread from time to time, but ultimately your journey is your own. For feedback from other partners, you may post your questions and comments in the partner's forum where there are many wise and wonderful partner's that have been where you are and offer their love and support.

I wish you the best in your journey. Take care of you today -

Sending you hugs -

Coach Sue

_________________
"You are the designer of your destiny. You are the author. You write the story. The pen is in your hand, and the outcome is whatever you choose." Lisa Nichols


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 61
Thank you, Coach Sue. I know I am slow to move, but I usually am through this process. I always feel I want to do it when I fully am engrossed in it.
Lesson 2: my vision
I see myself laughing more on a daily basis, like I do when I am truly balanced.
I see myself having a child that I can hold and teach and help grow to be a happy well-balanced individual when I feel it's time for my baby to be born.
I see myself with a caring, respecting partner who I can laugh with and trust unconditionally.
I see myself working out or doing activities outside at least 3-5 times a week.
I see myself playing poker and feeling balanced and in the moment of the game when I do do it, which I never do, haven't done in months because of these issues.
I see myself becoming a better daughter, going to see them more and be a part of their life more..this addiction with my pa has taken that away from me...it was always giving me anxiety before
I see myself concentrating on work more, not waiting until the last minute because I was concentrating too much on monitoring or getting home quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 61
LESSON 3

A) Brainstorm the times when your 'gut feelings' have been right about your partner's sexual and/or romantic behavior. Include times when you feel strongly that you were right (though it may never have been proven either way)


1. When I first met him and he was always acting weird with his phone, always had it looking away from me, always taking it to bathroom with him, always had it on him, always when I left a room to go to another room even for five minutes, all noises would stop, I walk in room or he hears me walking in room, he would put phone down face down, hearing porn in the bathroom when he was in bathroom just steps away from our bedroom, which he denied at the time called me crazy was screaming and hollering at me, he had me in tears thinking I was crazy because that's all he kept calling me was crazy. Every one of these instance were correct about the phone. He has admitted it to me a year later. Our first three months together, our only fight was about that damn phone!!!!! We fought at least 4-7 days a week about his phone. He never would come clean about it, always told me I was crazy and would make me cry and say he couldn't believe how crazy I was, that he had never fought so much over a phone before, lots of name calling and swearing and crying over that damn phone, which he now says was everything was true about the phone...oh, and you can add in there, that he was talking to his exes behind my back too! Let's see..that was first few happy months in the relationship. I feel so stupid as I write this...I don't understand why I stayed when there wasn't much invested in him and he made me feel so stupid and horrible.

2. When I always felt like he was waiting for me to get out of bed first, it's like I would sit there just to wait and see if he would ever get out of bed first because I always felt like it had to do with him being on the phone, and that's why he wanted me to leave room or shower or go have a cigarette first. I would come back in room, phone looking away from me and he gets off it or he got off it just when he would hear me coming back in room. I was right.

3. Once I told him if he wasn't an addict with porn, quite for three months and he said no problem...I could tell by his behaviors and how he spoke about quitting porn that he hadn't. He even told me if I think he will never watch porn again, that he would end the relationship because I met him watching porn and I need to accept it. Once again, at this time wondering why would I stay with someone that could make you feel so ugly as a woman? He told me if I told him he couldn't look at other naked women to a woman who is giving you her heart, soul, mind, and body, that he would leave me!!!????? Wow! This lesson is really bringing up some feelings!!

4. After he said he quit porn again because I found him still watching it ....he never gave it up for three months..think he lasted a week..but not even sure....When I would leave for work, I felt his excitement and anxiousness..I felt on certain days it was due to the porn or other stimuli, craigslist, phone apps, movies..you name it...we have been there since October of this year.....He only joined recovery finally in January...so in reality, his recovery just started truly 4 months ago. It took him our first six months together for him to admit that all this pain he has caused me with these instances were true, and the only reason he has admitted to anything since recovery started is because I have to catch him...If I don't catch him, he won't tell me....he never has.....I have to catch him in the moment and then he will give me little tid bits of the past...Kind of kills ya when you are the one paying all the bills right now because he can't financially afford to right now...and as you work your butt off all he can think of is someone else that he wants to set his mind to imagining to be with, imagine having sex with like you aren't good enough...and I know they say that's not how we should take it...but we are only human too and this stuff just hurts..there is no easy way around it.

B) Identify as many major situations as you can where you allowed your head/heart to override your 'gut feelings' in relation to your partner's behavior.

1. When he left me sitting on a curb at a bank in I think month 3 of our relationship so he could talk to his ex without me around for 15 minutes instead of picking me up like he said he would do right away. I really felt it had to do, once again, with his exes at the time and he didn't want me around on that day.

2. When I heard the porn in the bathroom, I let him tell me I was crazy and put me in tears and let me believe that I had issues to deal with and I was screwed up HA THIS IS FUNNY...FORGOT THIS....HE SAID I WAS CRAZY AND SCREWED UP BECAUSE OF MY LAST RELATIONSHIP, WHICH HE KNEW FROM OUR FIRST DATE WAS ALSO A PORN ADDICT!!!!! OH, LORD.....COMPlETELY FORGOT ABOUT HOW HE SAID HOW SCREWED UP MY EX WAS AND THAT I WAS CRAZY BECAUSE OF MY PAST STUFF WITH HIM......all the while, HE IS A PORN ADDICT TOO AND JUST NEVER THOUGHT TO LET ME IN ON HOW HE WATCHED PORN WHENEVER HE COULD AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT THAT I WASN'T IN THE ROOM....NO, WHY WOULD HE THINK HE TOO WAS A PORN ADDICT???????? The anger is sooooo much!!!!!!!

3. When I would get home from work and just felt all his defensiveness that day and just felt his mood switch from other days and how he spoke to me, I knew in my gut he was up to no good....but never followed it.

4. When he started telling me I wasn't pretty enough anymore, I don't take care of myself like I used to, that I don't wear pretty clothes like I used to...he literally stood in front of doorway, and said, LOOK AT YOU RENEE!! God, tears rolling down eyes.....HARD LESSON! TO made to feel so ugly over and over and over again while all you have done is worked on yourself to feel good about you and make people feel good about themselves, and to have someone be so nasty while all they want to do is look at other women and fantasize about them and be stuck in some stupid world and the hurt and the pain they cause while they do it doesn't matter the cost..and they are willing to hurt you at any cost!!!!!!!


C) Relying on the experience you have gained, make a list of likely behaviors, situations and/or feelings that may trigger a conflict between your gut instinct, your value system and/or reality.

THIS JUST HAPPENED YESTERDAY....And I'm having many conflicts right now with this one:

This is just a brief summary..I'm sure it's not word for word, but it is the gist of it all.

1. He tells me a list of events that takes place and they don't add up, this happened yesterday we are not living together right now..moved out few days ago:
ME: what are you doing?
HIM: I ate, showered, did recovery.
ME: That's all you did?
HIM: yes, why would I lie?
ME: you didn't watch tv?
HIM: yes, had it on but not while doing recovery, was looking for basketball.
but did recovery, on recovery
ME: you looked for basketball? You doing recovery?
HIM: Yes. talked to my son and watched some of a movie
(conversation goes back and forth...things not adding up, he wasn't on recovery for a whole hour and a half he finally admits when I ask him about computer history, which he knows I can check when I go back to house)
ME: If you were looking for basketball an hour and a half ago, and was watching movie only within ten minutes of me asking what you were doing, why didn't you just say you were watching a movie?
HIM: facts are facts...I told you everything.
ME: (today after stopping by house.)
Why does it show on history three hours after you say you were looking for basketball last night that on internet history you googled: nba game on tonight?
HIM: was looking to see if other team was playing later, The Thunder plays late games.
ME: You talked to your son a few hours earlier, before that, right? (HIS SON AND HIM ALWAYS TALK SPORTS, ALWAYS!!!!)
HIM: yes. then he proceeds to tell me how son told him no games were on that night, specifically said son said Thunder wasn't playing tonight either, no games TONIGHT.
ME: You don't make sense!!!!!!!!! Not to mention he said he was still looking at recovery while watching movie....looking at threads...no movement on computer history for whole hour and a half. .....Now you're saying you looked up game three hours later on internet after looking on tv, but then you say your son told you no games that night 2 hours ago......and then you only tell me about looking for basketball and not even about watching a movie until I drag it out of you.....my gut says he screwed up and acted out while watching something bad.

so the events....looked for basketball, talked to son, then went on looking for game on later tonight...none of it makes sense.....he said son already told him no game on tonight....but then he took it back and said well maybe son didn't tell him...and all the while I'm wondering why would he tell me he was looking for basketball when that was hour half previous but not tell me was watching a movie which was just a few minutes ago when I talked to him....he tells me facts are facts and he is not lying!!! I do not believe him....I truly believe he was watching a movie and acting out and is just going around everything...if things just can't simply add up on simple conversation, I mean come one!!???? Then he tells me he was doing recovery on and off through movie..history shows dead stop on computer for hour and a half....too many lies and confusion with what should have been a simple subject!!!!!!!!! This fight was just yesterday and he won't admit to none of it and says I'm dead wrong...I right now am not living with him...so he thinks I can't prove anything...but I'm learning go with my gut and my head...they were right all the times before.

2. He says he is doing great in recovery, 1-2 lessons a night, reading and gaining values and strength, but my gut tells me he is still acting out in his mind and minimizing it and protecting it and won't give me but what I feel is maybe 20 percent of what's really going on in his head on his bad days. If he does give me things that are going on, it's always after I leave, just like this time. I left on my gut this time. It felt good to just trust my gut finally and not need devices or things to prove it anymore. I knew he was being very general with me telling me he was doing great no problems..when I am not stupid, I know he was still having sexual thoughts, images, whatever, but at least something in his head still...I just wanted him to be open about things...I needed to know I was a part of this and not that he was still trying to hide everything like he has done every step of the way this whole time, through this whole recovery process since October.


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:49 pm
Posts: 61
LESSON 4:

(These lessons are all about my healing process and nothing to do with trying to get back a person who still would rather lie and protect his addiction than to have a meaningful relationship.)

1) Make a list of those values in your partner's life that — in your gut — you believe is a part of him. Set aside the addiction and the behaviors that were a part of that addiction. Focus on what values you believe will survive the recovery process. Post these in your Healing Thread. If there is a time when you are feeling close to your partner, share these thoughts with him — so that he knows that you are beginning to separate the addiction from his core identity.

A. His Innocence: For how nasty and ugly and underworld like his addiction is, I have seen his innocence on only a few occasions where he was will to just "be" with me and be himself, and I saw the child in him, the walls down, the vulnerability that he gave me, that beauty of a person that when all the garbage is set aside from the addict that he has within (example of this time was when I got him to dance with me in the living room even though I know it makes him feel so insecure and isn't in his safe zone at all.)

B. His Family Values: I see in him when around my family or while talking about his family that he wants to be close and family orientated as much as he can be. This is not only a want in him, but I almost feel it as a need. He yearns for that closeness of family, and that makes him, I feel, someone who makes a great family man, once he starts to let new family in or let his siblings in more and more. I have seen this develop through the process of his recovery more and more.

C. Great Work Ethic: He has great pride and joy with whatever work he does. He will not only do his eight hours a day but while doing it, he will be prideful of it no matter how small the task. He wants to always be the best at what he does no matter how hard the task is.....shame is, I wish he did that on the emotional end of life....honestly, this is why I think he soars so high in his work ethic, because he always ignored the emotional end of things..and just used his practical thinking end of the brain.

D. Emotional Connection: When everything is going good for us, which is usually when he is lying to me and I'm just sitting back waiting for the shoe to drop again, but I stop questioning him as much, because he gets frustrated with me, so I don't really think of it as a true emotional connection, because he is still using outside sources for his emotional stability or lack thereof, I do see minus his addiction, he would have this one down pat. He is affectionate and loving and fun to be around. We have always connected will, but this is a catch 22 because although we always got along great, it was while he was lying to me, so to me this is fake, yet like I said, would have great potential to be a strong suit of his minus the addiction.

E. Intelligence: He has always had this and is a very intelligent person, his stupid ass selfishness and stubborness and pride just throws his intelligence off too much at times.


2) Make a list of those qualities in your partner that you believe will continue to pose as obstacles throughout your relationship.


A. Respect. He doesn't know how to respect me and put me before his own self-gratification, whether it be him masturbating or watching things, or whether it be that I need my space. He will always put himself in these areas.

B. Honesty: He has always, always since I met him lied about stupid shit, little shit, big shit, doesn't matter shit....he is the one person I met that can say every day he doesn't lie, but lies ALL the time!!!

D. Selfishness: No matter where we are in the relationship, good or bad, he always has a reason for acting out or for why he lied about smoking pot, or for why he wasn't considering my feelings, or why he got frustrated with me having emotions.

E. Stubborn: He will never lose this! This is his biggest fault with the recovery process..he thinks he is always above and beyond where he is, always a step ahead of me, the system, recovery, life....sad part is because of that thinking, he will always get himself into trouble in life. He can never just SIT in the MOMENT and take it all in and digest it all and analyze it and take it for what it's worth and just keep moving forward. He always has to think he's got it...when in reality, he isn't close to getting it!

F. Manipulation: He will always find ways to make it my fault that he messed up, tell me how I'm not being fair, tell me if I don't come back I must not love him, tell me how unfair I am, because he doesn't LIE anymore!!!!!!!!! DON'T EVEN GET ME GOING ON THIS ONE....I FEEL LIKE A MORON FROM GIVING HIM A SURPRISE VISIT AT THE HOUSE....FELT SO MANIPULATED AND LIED TO AND LOW AND STUPID AND UGLY ALL IN ONE MOMENT OF SEEING HIM!!!!!!! HATE ALL THESE FEELINGS HE GIVES ME BECAUSE HE MANIPULATES ME INTO BELIEVING IN HIM AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN....JUST FOR ME TO END UP HURT AND DESTROYED AND FEELING STUPID ALL OVER AGAIN!

G. Pride: Don't even get me started. His pride is so ingrained in him and takes away from his intelligence levels so much. His pride has been in the way plenty of times. His pride has put stops to his recovery so many times. He thinks he knows it all....okay, but not everything...to he knows it all....maybe not.......knows it all....so sick of fighting tooth and nail with him and his pride. His pride does nothing but bring him down...I understand it's his wall, his protection from his early childhood...but it serves no purpose for him and this process he has to go through. If you can't open up in your recovery and BE HONEST even on a site where you are not known, then you have way too much pride...it's like when you think of his work ethic, he wants to look almost perfect on here when there is no need to...You won't get what you need out of this site....UNLESS YOUR HONEST!!!!!


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