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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:39 am 
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Absolutely. It was nothing but manipulation. He went on a tirade for almost 20 minutes yesterday about how he was not going to ever be abusive. He said, and I quote, "I'm sorry you became frightened, I'm sorry that you were scared, I'm sorry you misinterpreted the entire situation, I'm sort that you'd think that this is what was gonna happen, but if you seriously have the Mindset that I would do that to you, not only are you dead-ass wrong--and you need to acknowledge that--go find a new place to live because I won't live with a woman who thinks I will hit her." Notice how now, he is not even admitting he scared me? It was, "I'm sorry you were scared." When it happened, he did apologize for scaring me, but now he is minimizing it. When inaske him exactly why he was so concerned about this, getting defensive for like twenty minutes about how he wasn't that kind of person, if he really wasn't worried about being that kind of person? It came down to...."I don't have to ever do it. That's the point. I don't have to see touch yoy, and you have the power to ruin my cAreer and my life. I won't allow that for a fear that is not founded or continuous fear that is unfounded." ...or in other words he is afrai I will "tell on him" to his command. And why indeed is he worried about that unless he knows he has something to worry about?!?

Wow. I had no words after our conversation yesterday. I have been struggling with some of the moral aspects of divorce this week, but my dad just emailed me last night too and was telling me to divorce him. My qualms, morally, are still there but practically speaking, they are all but gone. He is getting very scary mentally. I do have a "safe house" friend who will take me and the cat if necessary and she also gave me her daughters number in case she isn't there if needed. I was just in disbelief at his ability for self deception.


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:19 am 
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Oh yeah--and that respect thing. Last night I was very calm during the conversation. I was trying to be as nice as possible. And he was disrespectful the entire.time. He was acting like he had a chip on his shoulder. Guess what happened when I asked him to please treat me with the same respect he constantly asked for?!? Bet you can guess! What happened? Nothing. He kept acting that way. :sat:


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 675
Kitten35 wrote:
My qualms, morally, are still there but practically speaking, they are all but gone.

When I enacted the in house separation from my husband, my brain was confident that I had the moral right to separate from him in that way, AND that it was what was most healthy for both of us. But it was so different from anything that I had ever expected to happen in my marriage, so complete contrary to how I had thought I would handle anything, that it took me a long time to get to a point where I didn't have to remind myself repeatedly of that fact. My reality did not match what my expectations for myself had been (even though those expectations had been based in faulty knowledge), and so there was an on-going internal struggle while the new reality sunk in.
What is your boundary regarding disrespect in conversations? What best protects your values? When you asked him to be more respectful, he ignored you. He will continue to cross that boundary until you enforce it. You could say things like, "That was disrespectful, please rephrase that." Or you could say, "I will not tolerate how disrespectful you are being right now. I would be happy to try this conversation again when you are willing to respect my thoughts and feelings." These are just a few options. What fits with your values?


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Mrs. Jones,
I did suggest a time out at the beginning of the conversation but it was not really observed because he didn't want to do it. We took a small time out in the middle but it didn't change his attitude. I did ask him a few times not to do it but he still did. He was being really over the top last night. He also said three times, very angrily, in defense of himself never becoming violent, "If I was going to hit you, I would have done it by now." Well, gee, that's reassuring. :ni:


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 pm
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Quote:
He also said three times, very angrily, in defense of himself never becoming violent, "If I was going to hit you, I would have done it by now."
At this point, taking into account your recent topic of conversation and his anger, I suggest that you prioritize your values - is respectful conversation at the top of your list? He's not responding to your boundaries about respecting you in conversation, and I'm doubting if he'd respond/respect your consequences except to see them as a challenge or punishment which might make matters worse for you until things cool down a bit. Perhaps, there can be a sort of moratorium for a few days, just for emotional health and safety. Enforcing boundaries takes practice, practice, practice not to mention your coming up with consequences that you are willing to enforce based on your values, regardless of his reaction. Give this careful thought.

This would not be my usual advice, but in this situation, I would be cautious. Just my take on it.

Nellie


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:47 am 
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Hi Nellie,
Yes, I agree with you. Someone I was talking to the other day asked me if I had told him some of the other things I see as I think about leaving, I suppose to give him a 'fair chance' of working on them. I said no way. The things I see include his destructiveness, his emotional abuse, the fact that he would not make a great father, etc., etc. I know he does not have the self-awareness to see them, and he is not going to develop it from past experience. It would take him years. And if I told him, I Think it would only escalate his anger at this point. That's also why I didn't fight too much for the respect in the conversation. Anyway, he's doing a good job of showing me who he is. :w: My dad sent me a letter the other day and said in no uncertain terms he thinks I should divorce him, I am making a mistake if I stay, he really wants me to come home to the states, and that he doesn't think he is going to change in any of the areas, including the compulsive sexual behavior, but also the destructiveness, riskiness, etc., etc. I know he is correct. I have pretty much decided to do it, I think for me, it's just "getting there" now.


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 pm
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You know your situation best - trust in your gut. I remember how defensive my H was in the beginning before he fully committed to becoming healthy, and even then it was a very long haul. I came to see my emotional health as my top priority. I basically set boundaries for myself. If/when you do want further discussion about hard topics, a mediator might be the way to go - someone to help defuse potential emotional eruptions.

As always, keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, Kitten. :w:

Nellie


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Thanks all. He just called me and we talked for awhile. I guess today he had an appointment with the counselor again. The counselor told him he wasn't sure how he could help him today because we're not really "going anywhere" with our separation and until we decide that there isn't much he can do. The counselor thinks we should "try" for a time period to see if things really can't be put back together. That's what the base chaplain told me as well. Our counselor has also told me, privately however, that if I chose to go he thinks I have an okay 'reason.'

I told him I would have to think about that. I am having a hard time with his change in attitude. Tonight he was nice, open, apologized for acting like a jerk the other night, etc., etc. I'm just not sure I buy it. This is the person who, three days ago, told me if he "was gonna hit me he already would have" and "I don't trust you for a second , if I all of a sudden decide to get loud, or throw my arms around a little bit. You go to the command, tell em I f--ing hit you? Or that I threatened to hitcha? There's my career gone, I don't need that s---. If you can't figure out what the difference is between the two, then I don't want you around." When I said it felt aggressive he said, "Then you've never experienced aggressive behavior."

I guess I need to look at his character here because I am finding this shift very confusing. I know he is good at doing and saying the right thing at the right time. I know he is very much a chameleon and is easily influenced--so if our counselor said he should think this way and look at my good qualities rather than playing the blame game with me, then that is what he will do. For a little while. But I don't get the impression, still, that he really understands the damage that has been done to the trust even if this 'new' person of two hours were to last. He keeps saying things like, "Well there are things that I would need to have you fix as well." He's really stuck on that. It bothers me. While I understand there are things that I do in the relationship, I truly don't feel that they are deal-breakers. I haven't cheated on him and I don't hit him or control him and I do try to change behaviors that he brings up that bother him. Nor are they compulsive. I think, generally, I'm a fairly healthy person. I don't see that from him.

This is a hard decision to make when I don't know the future. Of course, I know no one can. But how are we supposed to 'try' when he is deployed? Does 'trying' mean sex again or sleeping in the same bedroom? Because that's not happening yet. If ever. IF we even try! I feel like this is the first time I have had space from the drama for months. Maybe years. It's the first time I've been able to think without feeling like I was in the middle of a whirlwind. I feel like I don't have to worry about who he is talking to in the back room. I told him I had to think about this for a few days, because I'm not sure I want to be bound to trying again and I don't want to say I will do it if I won't. Why do I feel guilty that I don't think I really want to do this? Is that because I really do feel guilty for a reason, or do I just feel guilty because I was raised to believe I shouldn't divorce except in extreme circumstances? Does this qualify as extreme, or is that my conscience speaking? Do I want to be able to say I did everything I could and it still didn't work? Have I done everything I could? Probably not, realistically speaking. But I don't think that would change his behavior. And that's the million dollar question for me. If I became everything he wanted, he would probably still do this, woulnd't he? Until he wanted to change it badly enough, and independent of whether or not I stayed with him? And yet I know that statistically, psychologically, it's not even likely or maybe even possible, that he will just be a healthy person because he wants to be (if indeed he even does actually want to be, if this isn't fake). I just don't know. I just don't know that I even want to "try" anymore. Is that wrong? He said he never felt like I really got past things the first time. I never quite sensed a deep enough change, I think, though all the motions were correct. Is that something that I can rely on? Would I really sense it if he had changed? I would, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:49 pm
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I'm going to go through this a bit at a time. :)
Kitten35 wrote:
I told him I would have to think about that. I am having a hard time with his change in attitude. Tonight he was nice, open, apologized for acting like a jerk the other night, etc., etc. I'm just not sure I buy it.

I guess I need to look at his character here because I am finding this shift very confusing. I know he is good at doing and saying the right thing at the right time. I know he is very much a chameleon and is easily influenced--so if our counselor said he should think this way and look at my good qualities rather than playing the blame game with me, then that is what he will do. For a little while.

What you're describing here is that his behavior is not a values based change, it's a feelings based change. When his feelings change again, so will his behavior. You're right not to trust it.

Quote:
But I don't get the impression, still, that he really understands the damage that has been done to the trust even if this 'new' person of two hours were to last. He keeps saying things like, "Well there are things that I would need to have you fix as well." He's really stuck on that. It bothers me. While I understand there are things that I do in the relationship, I truly don't feel that they are deal-breakers. I haven't cheated on him and I don't hit him or control him and I do try to change behaviors that he brings up that bother him. Nor are they compulsive. I think, generally, I'm a fairly healthy person. I don't see that from him.


At the beginning of his recovery, my husband went through periods of insisting that I had to change too as well. It was a way of blame shifting, of staying in denial. It wasn't HIS problem that needed to be fixed, it was OUR problem. And if I agreed that I would change too, that meant it wasn't his responsibility. Basically, if I agreed that I needed to change also, then he could make the leap to deciding that his behavior really wasn't that bad. After all, we must both have contributed to our marriage problems. It was false. Was I a perfect wife? Absolutely not. But as long as I kept agreeing to participate in the change, he always found things that I needed to change to focus on. It also shifts the focus from where it should be. If he's "having you change things" and you're "having him change things" then he's not changing because he realizes that his life is not the healthy, productive life he wants - he's changing because "you're making him." It's not effective and even if he COULD be successful, very well could lead to resentment.

Quote:
This is a hard decision to make when I don't know the future. Of course, I know no one can. But how are we supposed to 'try' when he is deployed? Does 'trying' mean sex again or sleeping in the same bedroom? Because that's not happening yet. If ever. IF we even try!

These are important questions to ask. I'd suggest NOT trying to heal the relationship at all until you have healed and he has made giant strides in recovery. IF you decide to give the relationship another chance, I'd suggest that it mean waiting to make a decision about a permanent commitment until after you have seen long term progress in that recovery. Basically, the chance is that it's up to him to show you over a long period of time that the changes are sincere and permanent. Then the ball is in his court to show you that he takes his commitment to you seriously. It takes TWO committed people to make a marriage. If he isn't sincere in his commitment, then the marriage is still faltering.
Quote:
I feel like this is the first time I have had space from the drama for months. Maybe years. It's the first time I've been able to think without feeling like I was in the middle of a whirlwind. I feel like I don't have to worry about who he is talking to in the back room. I told him I had to think about this for a few days, because I'm not sure I want to be bound to trying again and I don't want to say I will do it if I won't.

Hold onto these things, and protect them. They are valuable! Your safety and feeling of stability is important!
Quote:
Why do I feel guilty that I don't think I really want to do this? Is that because I really do feel guilty for a reason, or do I just feel guilty because I was raised to believe I shouldn't divorce except in extreme circumstances? Does this qualify as extreme, or is that my conscience speaking?

One of the most shocking moments for me in my healing process was the moment when I realized that if anyone else had told me that their spouse had forced sexual things on them, like my husband had on me, I would have told them that it was rape and would have pointed out the routine sexual abuse that their spouse was committing. I didn't think of it in those terms because I NEVER thought it would ever happen to me. The moment when I realized my husband had raped me was the moment that I stopped questioning if my separation was legitimate. I don't know if thinking about it in those terms would work. If someone came to you and told you they were experiencing EXACTLY what you're going through, what words would you have for them? What concerns would you have? Would you whole heartedly support them leaving their spouse? Or (assuming they shared your faith) would you question their grounds for separation?
Quote:
Do I want to be able to say I did everything I could and it still didn't work? Have I done everything I could? Probably not, realistically speaking. But I don't think that would change his behavior. And that's the million dollar question for me. If I became everything he wanted, he would probably still do this, woulnd't he? Until he wanted to change it badly enough, and independent of whether or not I stayed with him?

These questions were important to me too. If there was ANYTHING I could do to help, any way that I could influence him to become a person that he could be proud of, anything that would mean that a healthy relationship would be possible, I wanted to do it. Honestly, there were very few costs to myself that I wouldn't consider paying to help him become the man I knew was in there. But there wasn't. Ultimately I could do nothing except protect myself from the destruction and pray that he started to choose a healthier path. Let me say this to you. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do for him. You cannot talk him off the edge. You cannot "boundaries" him into deciding to recover. There is no encouragement or threat or sacrifice that you can make that will lead him to healing. Realizing that, for me, was heartbreaking. Because I truly did (and do!) love my husband. I clearly remember a moment where I felt like I was watching him die with nothing I could do to stop it. Thinking about it, even knowing how things are now, is still a punch to the gut.
Quote:
I never quite sensed a deep enough change, I think, though all the motions were correct. Is that something that I can rely on? Would I really sense it if he had changed? I would, right?

You would know. You wouldn't just "sense" it, you would be able to point to dozens of things that are different between who he "used to be" and who he is now. Not just in the moments when you're "dealing with the addiction" or "dealing with the abuse" (although those moments should be different too) but in your day to day interaction. Times when you know you're both tired and in the past he would usually react one way, but now, he routinely acts differently. Times when you see him willingly face things that frighten and embarrass him, not because he's forced to, but because it's the best way to have the life he wants. Moments where he wants something from you that you can't give, and he graciously accepts your boundaries. It's not just a "sense" it's a giant list of ways that things are NOT the same any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Hi Mrs. Jones,
Thanks for the nice reply. I will give some thought to it and reply with a longer reply when I have a little more time. Thanks!
Kitten35


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:26 am 
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Please, Kitten - read and reread what Coach Mel wrote. She is so right on the money. You are under a ridiculous amount of pressure and it is creating a cloud of self-doubt and guilt that is just completely unfair.

I also feel it is worth bringing up the faith aspect of this situation, because Christ is not tool for unfaithful husbands to leverage against their traumatized wives. I feel you could use an advocate who shares your faith. If sex outside of marriage is forbidden, then your husband has two options - patiently reconcile his existing marriage and hope that that aspect of the marriage relationship will eventually be restored, or break up his marriage and accept long-term celibacy until he develops another marriage relationship. You are not the reason he can't have sex - he is. According to the faith he is professing, sex with your spouse is the fringe benefit of making a faithful commitment. He broke that commitment (and continues to break it in various ways). You don't owe him sex - he owes you faithfulness. If he had lived up to what he owed you, he would be enjoying the fringe benefit of sex; if he chooses to live up to that commitment now, maybe someday you will want to have sex again. His pressure is a warped manipulation of what it means to be married. This is a double standard, not a call to obedience to your faith. He is skewing your faith to excuse his sinful actions and condemn your perfectly reasonable ones.

I feel for how isolated you are. Also, how deeply conflicted you are between your values of self-protection and faithfulness. He is taking advantage of that conflict. It is not loving, it is not kind, it is not patient, it is not gentle - there is nothing about this situation that would indicated he is taking his faith seriously. He is just abusing yours.

God be with you, kitten - may you feel the warmth, comfort, and acceptance of God's great love for you. I do not believe God would condemn you for your choice to protect yourself. Quite the opposite.
thebagholder


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 pm
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Hi Kitten,
Quote:
So back to not even wanting to try. This is killing me.
Kitten, it seems to me that you are sacrificing yourself to his addiction. We all reach a point where enough is enough, and it's OK to walk away saying, "I love you, but I just can't live like this anymore. I can't try anymore. I am worn out." You feel your trust and your love might be irretrievably broken. It may be. Not all of us can put the deep betrayal behind us. That doesn't make us the bad guy, just human.

Quote:
Because in a way, then the ultimate failure of this marriage is on me. Because I didn't want to try anymore and I'm shutting the door on his efforts.
No. Don't judge yourself this way. It's not that black and white, never is. Choosing to end a relationship is not always about failure. Perhaps, it's about seeing differences in values, seeing what the future does or does not hold for you, and being true to the vision you have for your life. To me, that's not failure but clarity.

bagholder said:
Quote:
Also, how deeply conflicted you are between your values of self-protection and faithfulness. He is taking advantage of that conflict.
I tend to agree that you are conflicted, and that your H, using typical SA tactics, is pressuring you to get his way - very selfish of him. If or when he sincerely commits to a health-based recovery doing the hard work it takes, I would wonder when these tactics would stop. With this in mind, I would choose to trust in myself and what my gut is telling me. I would honor myself as a child of God. Just my take on it.

Hope this helps. :g:
Nellie


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Hey kitten, regarding withholding sex as a form of unfaithfulness, here is how I agree. In a relationship where one partner arbitrarily with holds sexual intimacy from their partner they are ignoring a valuable part of marriage and potentially contributing to the demise of the relationship. T can lead to the partner feeling disrespected, ignored, and disconnected. In some situations I could agree that this could be a form of breaking marriage vows. Kitten, this is not the situation you find yourself in. You are not arbitrarily with holding - you have discovered that sex is dangerous and so are protecting both yourself AND the relationship by refusing to participate in damaging activities. In this situation, time is not what will make sex safe again. So the amount of time that has gone by is completely beside the point. Him choosing to be a respectful, loving, committed partner is what will make sex safe.

I have a lot more that I'd like to say, but I'm on my phone right now and the other mentors and coaches have covered quite a bit of it. I'll post more when I have access to a computer. Mrs jones


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Kitten35 wrote:

So back to not even wanting to try. This is killing me. I don't think I want to try. I just want to go home to the states and start over. But then that makes me, someone who is essentially taking those offers for reconciliation and turning them down. I'm saying, 'enough is enough" instead of 'I love you enough to try one more time." This makes me feel so bad, and very guilty for not wanting to even give it a go. I'm walking away before I have done everything I could do because I don't know if it would make a difference anyway--but I don't actually know that, because I haven't tried, and I know there ARE legitimate things I could do to be a better wife. But on the other hand, I just don't really want to try. I think trust and love might be irretrievably broken. I'm not sure I'd ever really put it behind me. But maybe I'm just not wanting to do the work anymore and am giving up on the marriage because it's not worth it to me--have I really reached the point of "divorce as a last resort and only a last resort?" How do I know I'm not just done because I'm tired of it? IS that wrong? I feel SO GUILTY about this right now, and also about the sex. I know I need to give him an answer, but I am just really having a hard time with the guilt right now. Because in a way, then the ultimate failure of this marriage is on me. Because I didn't want to try anymore and I'm shutting the door on his efforts. Does anyone have thoughts on this?


Okay, I have access to a computer, so I'm back. The thing that concerns me most is that it appears like the responsibility is being put on YOU to figure out how to satisfy him sexually OR end the marriage. Frankly, that's not your responsibility. Two of the lessons that sexual addicts struggle to learn, but must learn are: 1. how to cope with their sexual urges when there are no healthy outlets available. and 2. How to accept the consequences for their behavior without trying to force someone else to shield them from it. This issue that you are discussing includes BOTH of these lessons. Your reluctance to have sex is a natural and healthy consequence that springs from his betrayal. It's not a way that you are punishing him. It is your God given instinct to protect yourself and your relationship nudging you. Part of his recovery is learning how to accept the fact that HIS actions caused THIS consequence. And that pressuring you to have sex when you are not ready or comfortable only means that you accept the consequences for what he did - not him. Him pressuring you for sex is not respectful or honoring. It is the opposite of cherishing - it is abusive.

Quote:
I'm saying, 'enough is enough" instead of 'I love you enough to try one more time."


What if you're saying, "I love you enough to not let you keep destroying the things you love." or "I value the sanctity of marriage too much to allow you to make a mockery of it." or "I love you enough to give you the time you need to ACTUALLY recover, so that you can be whole and have the potential to have a WHOLE relationship, instead of just this broken one." What he WANTS right now is reconciliation. If he's not yet in recovery, what he NEEDS is the time and space to build a healthy life. Love gives what the other person needs, not what they want.

Quote:
I feel SO GUILTY about this right now, and also about the sex. I know I need to give him an answer, but I am just really having a hard time with the guilt right now. Because in a way, then the ultimate failure of this marriage is on me.

I disagree. You don't need to give him an answer. And no, he doesn't get to push you into a corner, abuse you, be unfaithful to you, force you to give him an answer and then blame you for the destruction of your relationship. :no: :no: :no: !!!! Absolutely not! He will always be responsible for what he did. He broke the relationship. It was his failure that lead you to this point. NOT yours. This makes me so angry! If he had been faithful to you. If he had been honest about who he was. If he had kept his vows - you would be like every other married couple out there. You would have problems. You would work them out. But he didn't. He wasn't faithful, he wasn't honest, he didn't keep his vows. To say then that it is YOUR failure that ends the relationship is (in my eyes) the ultimate insult because it is exactly the fact that you VALUE marriage, your vows, honesty etc... that would lead you to end it.

The fact that you feel guilt suggests that you feel like you've done something wrong. I'm going to suggest that you get really specific with yourself about that. Where is that guilt coming from? Are you violating values somewhere? What values? Why? Is the guilt because you're accepting manipulative lies as truth?
It's okay that you don't know the future. It's okay to make the best decision that you can - taking into account both what you know and how you feel. Both knowledge and emotions are God given and have valid input on your decisions. It's okay if you're wrong, because you're not required to be perfect. You are loved regardless of what you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Separation question
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:12 am 
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Thank you for all the support ladies!

I've mostly decided that I'm going to leave but I haven't told him yet. Trying to figure out how and when to tell him. I've been pretty certain about that, but I'm beyond a shadow now. He's not well and I can't fix him. I talked with a friend yesterday who is in training to be a counselor and she gave me some very good thoughts about the guilt things. I also think he has a secret stash somewhere but I don't know where. My sister told me yesterday he told my brother in law on vacation last spring that he had problems with porn, looking for approval kind of. When my BIL didn't approve, she said he downplayed it and said something like, "It's just like magazines and stuff, not bad." This week, when he confessed he had been slipping up on a weekly basis, he told me it was "Victoria's Secret and Sports Illustrated swimsuit type 'stuff.'" But neither of those, or anything else, shows up on his computer report--which means it's not coming off anything that we have tracked. It's got to be printed media of some kind. I did find some erotica on his Kindle this morning, but couldn't find any magazines. But he's got to have them somewhere if he's been using something regularly. However, if really he was using magazines as early as last spring--he didn't tell me this either, of course--that means he's been in this 'relapse' (if he was ever really in recovery, which I don't think he was) for quite a while.

It's just not going to change until he wants it to.

He is trying to get me to distrust my gut, as well. I told him the other day something during one of our talks, about my intuition and how I 'knew' something and how my feelings were becoming more certain about leaving. He says something along the lines of, "You should talk to someone about that, because you can't base decisions on feelings because they're not always right." I tried to explain that intuition isn't a feeling, but he didn't really get it. He doesn't have much intuition. I said, "No, I will not discount my intuition, not this time." He says, "What do you mean, this time?" And I said, "Last time we worked through this, I had some strong feelings about your discernment, but was told by two people to try and be more objective." This time? Not happening. He keeps suggesting that I 'talk to people' about this decision. I have gotten quite a bit of advice from others, some who have actually advised leaving, but I haven't told him that because he'll just get pissed and he doesn't really need to know that anyway. When I told him our mutual marriage counselor had told me I had grounds for divorce, he said, "Oh, now I see why his attitude was what it was when I went in there last time, since he seems to be on your side." How ridiculous. Even with that it's all about him. Geez. He wasn't on "my side." He just said he thought I had technical grounds. That selfcenteredness, that selfishness, it's just not going to go away. You know when I dated him my college roommate said, "He's nice, and I like him, but sometimes I think he thinks it's all about him." I think I kind of just said he could be that way but wasn't always. BOY do I wish I had considered her comment more carefully way back when!!! She was right on the nose!

I'll reply more when I have a little more time to some of the specific points made. They were really, really helpful. Thanks!


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