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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:20 pm 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 1291
I am sorry.
It's my fault.
What can I do to make it right?

Or

Four R's of a sincere apology

Recognize what they did wrong. One way is by restating it specifically and objectively and how it impacted the offended person.
Take responsibility for the action that caused the hurt without excuses such as bad childhood, drinking, forgetting, etc.
Show remorse for the behavior. Sincerity can not be faked long.
Reparation or give something back, atone for what was taken.

Thoughts?

I felt an epiphany when I read these as I now know why the "I'm sorrys" never meant much to me at all. They were missing the components after saying "I'm sorry."

http://trustedadvisor.com/trustmatters/ ... hy-apology

http://www.quotesfrenzy.com/93239/a-tru ... ife-quotes

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/196962183678366137/

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"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
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Location: UK
Hi Autumn Rose
I read a lot of your posts and they inspire and advise me
thanks for that
this particular post I am adding to my thread , thanks and be well

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Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
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Hi Coach Kenzo,
You are so welcome. And I have read many of your posts as well. I met a man when my first husband was in alcohol treatment who reminds me of you. He was an addict who was arrested in a downward spiral of relapse. But ironically he never used because of the arrest. When I met him, he had lost literally everything, his wife, his children, his friends, his status, his home, his money, his career.... Even his dealer had told him he didn't want him around anymore. In telling his story, I was moved by how at his very lowest is when he dedicated himself to make the climb out. He made no excuses for himself and was clear that no matter what happened in life he was committed to getting healthy. I ran into him a few years ago, nearly 25 years after that time. He has rebuilt his life and no one would ever guess the life he used to live. It made me a little sad, because my first husband's addictions really took his life when he committed suicide rather than make that choice to climb out. Same with my second husband who chooses addictions rather than health.

Anyway, thank you for your healthy outlook, humility and example on this board. I appreciate it.

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
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Double posting. :-)

These particular definitions really helped me see what was missing for me with my ex-husband's apologies. I am starting to really understand my boundaries around this. He texted an "I'm sorry" and I decided to just send the first definition back to him. A few weeks later he actually did something to make things right and I thanked him for taking action. :sat:

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
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Location: UK
AR
Quote:
Anyway, thank you for your healthy outlook, humility and example on this board. I appreciate it.


my outlook is healthy only because I am and the reason for that is because I chose to be and I found RN
we can all do it
but you know that already
please do continue to support those of you on the white side and take care of your very good self :g:

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 1291
:g:

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3829
Location: UK
happy new year AR
Quote:
it's been a good learning experience for me.


experience is all about learning
hopefully positively but as we all have witnessed not always
recovery and healing however provides us with we have as a right - choice

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Partner's Coach

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 1291
You know what's interesting to me about experience is if I don't face things head on, I tend to circle back and re-experience it. :s: I cycled through his addictive cycles over and over again with my soon to be ex-husband, just experiencing over and over again. Always hoping he would do something different. He did, he went more underground, he used words more than actions, he made promises that weren't real beyond that moment. I've watched him deteriorate and it is sad. I have learned along the way. I have progressed along the way. Sometimes going sideways on a switchback trail, then sprinting forward, then hurdling back into quagmire of what felt comfortable. But I have known for some time now, the greatest lesson for me was to completely let go. Then I could be free of repeating this cycle again and again. I am really processing a lot this morning. :sat:

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Partner's Coach (Admin)

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 5200
Quote:
Recognize what they did wrong. One way is by restating it specifically and objectively and how it impacted the offended person.
Take responsibility for the action that caused the hurt without excuses such as bad childhood, drinking, forgetting, etc.
Show remorse for the behavior. Sincerity can not be faked long.
Reparation or give something back, atone for what was taken.


I missed this post the first time around...

To this initial list of what constitutes a true apology, I would add that there should be visible measures taken to not repeat the same offence/violation, and that the reparation or giving back or atonement should be directly related to that which was violated. To illustrate, my estranged husband demonstrated that he was capable of taking responsibility (at least verbally) for his violation, once exposed. He also demonstrated sincere remorse (at least I believed it was sincere).

That said, I also believe-and consequently caution-that some people are capable of faking sincerity. Especially, I suspect, people who might be considered sociopathic due to their apparent lack of social conscience. Also, it is possible to confuse an emotional response that is elicited in response to threat as sincere remorse.

Coach Jon once wrote that it is possible that a person active in their addiction is sincere--in the moment. i.e. As soon as the threat of the moment is removed, the person soon "forgets" (their attention is no longer attenuated by the threat, so they return to business as usual). I have witnessed several times when my estranged husband displayed such sincere regret and remorse for his actions. And, he was sincere at the time because the threat to his homeostasis was palpable.

My estranged husband was also very good at giving something back. He cooked, he cleaned, he went for groceries, he built things, and took care of many of the practical aspects of managing a household. In other words, he continually tried to "make up for" his behaviours, even when he wasn't exposed. But, these actions didn't match his violations.

I simultaneously believe that, were he to achieve true homeostasis in his life, he would still engage in these activities as sources of true value-based fulfillment (without the "need" to counter them with acting out) AND think that these were activities he often engaged in as a way to self-justify his other "extra-curricular" activities. I think that, because his "atonements" did not match the behavioural violations, aided and abetted the continuance of the addicted behavioural violations. They allowed him to deny the existence and true impact of the addicted behaviours. Were he to engage in restorative actions that matched the violations, he would be prevented from filing these violations into the recesses of his mind, because his aligned restorative actions would be a reminder of his violations. I believe that this is the only way that an apology will every be true--when the restorative actions match the violation, serving as a reminder.

A sign of health will be when the person is able to engage in such restorative actions consistently, because doing so, I believe, signals an emotional maturity that really can't be faked; doing so required an experienced sense of responsibility, an experienced acceptance of the impact of their behaviours, and a true commitment to health (i.e. not repeating the damaging behaviours). Any other form of apology, I fear, is merely paying lip service to the violation and probably serves the addiction more than anything.

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Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. (Viktor E. Frankl)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:06 pm 
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Partner's Mentor

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
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Quote:
I would add that there should be visible measures taken to not repeat the same offence/violation, and that the reparation or giving back or atonement should be directly related to that which was violated.


I agree with Coach Mel. In thinking about this, and since this is a both sides thread, do others agree? If so, what have those who have recovered or are in late recovery done in terms of making amends? Did your actions address what Coach Mel says above? How about partners? Were there specific actions that you felt made amends to the specific violations you felt?

dnell


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 1291
Great insights.

Yes I completely agree.

Amends, yes, I recognized a long time ago that was what I was craving from my soon to be ex-husband. I have come to terms with and accepted that the most he can do is offer "I'm so sorry" and "It's all my fault." I have chosen to let this go and separated my ability to heal and move forward from his inability to make amends.

Over the years he made some amends only to take them back in effect by new damaging behaviors. One thing I have recognized in our dynamic is I see things as connected with one action affecting other actions. On the other hand, he sees all things as separate, isolated incidents that should stand on there own and not affect other actions. One true tenet of addiction I believe. One thing I have learned is sustained effort, sustained change is what is important, rather than grand gestures. But it is hard to practice a sustained life if you see life as one incident after another that is separated from the rest of your life.

One other thought. I remember in the workshop John asks us to write a letter as if we are our partner to make it right, or something along those lines. I thought, 'that's ridiculous as no words will ever be enough', then began my letter with something like "There is nothing I can ever say to make this up to you...." I am not the most cooperative in my own healing sometimes. :s: And can be stubborn in the way I want to do things. I honor that now because I have been betrayed and hurt so many times by so many, I just think it's okay for me to 'do it my way." :sat:

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.


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