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 Post subject: More lies and boundaries
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:10 pm 
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My H is still lying about stupid stuff. I'm not pushing him (at least I'm trying not to...I think I am better at this) on what he is not telling me. His lies by omission, well, that's on him to decide if he wants to be honest with me or not. His choice. Not mine.

But, these overt lies about stupid stuff. They are maddening. So, not effectively or in an adult way (I was immature and bitchy, but I apologized) when I confronted him (need to do a better job on this), he lied, blamed me for it, blew up, and did all the old addict behavior. I left the house and got dinner. I have told him if he does it again, I will leave the house for the night. I'm feeling better about finally having some boundaries.

But, honest to god. Why lie about stupid stuff? Or, why not catch himself when he starts to lie about stupid stuff and then correct himself. I get more angry about these stupid lies. He doesn't seem to care that this is a major boundary issue for me.

It's very scary to see how ingrained these stupid, dishonest behaviors are.

dnell


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Old patterns are hard to change. His lying is deeply ingrained. Stupid lies are just plain stupid but fit the general pattern of the SA. Until he develops some self awareness and develops a game plan to plug in when he catches himself slipping into that pattern, he won't make much headway. I know how crazy-making this can be for you. Don't let it. Set your boundaries and follow through as you did by eating dinner out.

You can also tell him how this makes you feel: I feel __________when you _____________. Be heard. He won't like it and may react negatively. Don't engage. How does it make you feel when he lies?

Hope this helps a bit.
Nellie


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:58 am 
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Your husband has never valued truth telling. So keep in mind that early in recovery, he is "trying on" truth and seeing how it works. While these little lies seem very stupid to you, what you cannot imagine is how exposed he feels, telling the truth about so many big things. Without the comfort of cover-up, he likely feels empty and naked. His need to feel control will come out in these stupid ways, in part, because he is trying so hard not to tell important lies, so he's telling dumb, unimportant ones. 100%, your best bet is to hold your boundary, because he needs to learn that there is no skirting your need for truth- it just may help you feel less frustrated and be more empathetic (without giving in), if you can see these dumb lies as a side effect of his giving up big lies.

It took my h quite some time to finally recognize an "unnecessary lie" before it came out of his mouth. His overbearing parents had made it such a fluid part of his life.

Stay strong! You are handling it well.
thebagholder


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:47 am 
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:g: Good response by bagholder. To this I will add that my H didn't even realize he was lying until I called him on it. He always thought of himself as being honest. It took our counselor to make him aware of his old behavior patterns that went back to childhood where being the "good boy" was his image. and it took his private counselor to help him face this and learn how to break the patterns by developing the tools to change them. Lots of hard work on his part.

I also agree with the need to control when the SA suddenly feels so out of control after years of using patterns that worked. My H really didn't know who he was, and the old behaviors were like a Linus' comfort blanket even if it was a little lie. My job was to acknowledge this for what it was and to communicate to him that it wasn't OK - no drama - just straight forward statement of how I felt about it. Enforcing boundaries.

Nellie


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:03 pm 
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These are very helpful responses. Thanks. I thnk my h is still lying about big and little things. One of his excuses for 'stupid' lies is that since I don't fully trust him that he is in control of his compulsions, he needs to lie. Huh. Addict thinking at its finest. I do resonate to the idea of his need to feel in control since this is a huge issue for my husband. As well, there is a need to see me as the "bad" one who will do, I don't know what, but something awful if he tells the truth. What a mess. I finally got it together to be an adult and said to him, 'When you lie it hurts my feelings and scares the willies out of me."

In thinking about how I felt, it was:

1) Hurt - again! He lies again and again and again. It hurts to be both treated so badly and to not be trusted to hear the truth.
2) Fear - What is he lying about that could harm me? What don't I know that can harm me? Can I ever build any trust with this man?
3) Anxiety - Will this ever end? How long can I stand this?
4) Anger - oh, honestly, Just tell the truth about something.

dnell


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 pm
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These are important insights:
Quote:
In thinking about how I felt, it was:
1) Hurt - again! He lies again and again and again. It hurts to be both treated so badly and to not be trusted to hear the truth.
2) Fear - What is he lying about that could harm me? What don't I know that can harm me? Can I ever build any trust with this man?
3) Anxiety - Will this ever end? How long can I stand this?
4) Anger - oh, honestly, Just tell the truth about something.

Now the question for you is how can you deal with these feelings so you can protect your emotional health?
1) Being HURT again and again by his lying may fall under the umbrella of acceptance of his being an SA. This is what he'll do until he learns to change his own patterns which will take some work on his part beginning with being honest with himself. What can do change your reaction? A place to start is to not personalize which is hard, I know. He is in early recovery and has a long way to go.

2) Fearing the unknown - again, accept that you will never know it all and make peace with that. I found that much of what I didn't know eventually came out later when I was better able to handle it without tipping over. I think our fears get in the way of our own healing. It can become consuming. Recognizing your fears is the first step. If you feel that he has something major to confess, set up a date with counselor, friend, minister to help diffuse the situation. You don't have to be alone. I feel that our early counselor was very good in this way. After one brutal disclosure, I called her for an emergency session because I felt so undone and out of control. It helped immensely.

3) Anxiety - takes its toll. My question to you is what do you want to end? What would a life free of anxiety look like to you?
Does it depend upon your H or yourself?

4) Anger - His lying makes you angry. I know it gets very old and can drive you crazy if you let it. That in itself gives him some power over you so....come up with a game plan to help change that reaction before it affects your emotional health. It's OK to be angry and to beat on a pillow or tear up one of his shirts (my favorite), but if you find yourself in a state of anger with every lie, work to change your focus as soon as you feel the anger coming on....Sing, dance, scrub the floor, go for a walk, whatever it takes. Don't sacrifice yourself to his SA behaviors. Don't buy into his stuff.

I hope this helps in some way. It took me a long time to take control of me. I had to come up with effective action plans to change my own reactive patterns. My emotional health became my priority and still is. Taking active control of ourselves requires doing - lots of doing what you value. Revisit your vision and determine if it still fits. It not revise it.

Nellie


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:13 am 
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Nellie James, thank you for the compassionate and helpful post.

My moving to a new town last July was both a good and bad idea. My old town was so full of triggers and the potential for personal scandal for me in my elected position given my husband's escalating SA. But, leaving has stripped me of much of my personal meaning and support systems. I need to recreate them from scratch here in my new town. That would be challenging in any event, but harder due to my feeling so weak and.....ugh.

I see my new personal counselor on Thursday and am thinking that will help. My "problems" at this point really are not my husband and his SA, they are me. I need to not be so emotionally volatile. I need to rebuild my sense of self worth and self esteem. I realize I am not getting out and meeting new people and doing new things because....well, I'm feeling so wary and untrusting of people; I'm feeling so weak and fragile; I'm feeling so unworthy. And, isn't that sad. I can't say that is all due to living with a SA, but most likely due to my earlier childhood traumas.

And, the anxiety. It is about ME. When am I going to get off the dime? When am I going to take care of myself? Am I ever going to make healthy decisions and feel better? Will I ever feel good about myself?

I do see I need a "mini vision" to deal with these early recovery stages. My anxiety feels like a caged, pacing, rabid animal inside of me. Next to that is the snarling, scary wild monster of anger. And, next to that is the ugly, toxic alien of shame I feel for having lived with a SA all these years. And, somewhere in there is the cold, scolding voice telling me: you deserved this. So, lots of work I need to do on myself. Jeez. I can also feel inside of me the innocent little girl I once was who needs to be rescued and nurtured. Somewhere in me is the strong, loving adult who needs to be set free and healed.

I will try today to nurture myself and find positives. Hard stuff, isn't it....

dnell


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