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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:43 am 
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how do I start that conversation if he fobs me off as he does with any serious talk, I know he needs help and I showing all traits of feeling guilty etc, his work assessment even said he was wearing a mask due to something, which they didn't believe was personal but work related, I know otherwise, I cant see the point in helping myself if I don't tell him why I am changing,and our marriage cant go on with him deceiving and me ignoring -he needs help,I don't think he even contemplates that he is addicted,


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
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Jenny - Jon really helped me to figure out how to answer the questions you raised. What do I do with my husband now that I know he is addicted? How can I get him to face reality and get help? I encourage you to keep doing the lessons since the information provided will be so helpful in figuring out what to do.

I can say that it's probably fairly certain that your husband does not think he is an addict. My husband took over a year of active recovery work to accept that he was an addict. They are that much in denial. The last thing they want to do is to give up their addictive thinking and behaviors since it has provided them with so much comfort over the years. As you'll learn from the lessons, that is an illusory comfort, but they've been doing it for so long they don't have any other way to manage their lives.

The painful truth is you can't make your husband wake up and realize he's an addict nor make him get help. You can though make a threat. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's the truth and Jon explains this in the lesson. And the threat is something along the lines of I need you to (and you need to figure this out) or I will (and you need to figure this out). I don't recommend doing this until you've gotten through a few more lessons. The hard part is figuring out what is your bottom line at this point. For me it was telling my husband that I thought he had serious problems that were destroying me, him and our marriage; and that he had to either do the Recovery Nation lessons or get therapy help or I would separate. And you have to make this threat and mean it. It was so scary to say this. I had to really figure out if I meant it. And, I had to give him a deadline: as in, I need you to take action within one week. Otherwise they will just ignore it.

Then, you have to hand them off to themselves. This is a painful realization. It took me a while to accept this. I had no control over my husband and his addictions, his recovery, his sincerity, his life. Then, the focus has to be on you. On your healing. Your well being. This takes a while but it is critically important. I've been actively working on healing for over fifteen months and I an so much better than post discovery. But it takes time. It's hard work. It's worth it. Focusing on me and not my husband is such an enormous relief.

In solidarity,
dnell


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:44 am 
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that is what I wanted to know, I am doing my own lessons, but feel it is unfair to do this without telling him that I think he has a problem, :( as he ,like me, I feel, assumes sex addicts are at it like rabbits, I don't think it has crossed his mind that unknowingly he has lost is libido due to this porn usage and fantasising about intensity and fetish passion while denying it in real life- I know I cant force him to do anything, I realise that, been there done that, asked questions as to why. But not actually said I think his symptoms are tose of an addict..sometimes I think I would like to show him the pile of evidence I have collected, noted over the years, as he,I bet, never puts it all together, all together it is obvious there is a problem which is escalating- I feel scared that by not telling him what I feel he will go further and further-thinking it is free choice and his dis connection is purely due to not desiring me :( oh well
lesson two will be done shortly,
I do however feel more at ease with myself, and te spying, snooping has ended-which is an immense step for me :) it was like self torture


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:20 am 
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Partner's Coach (Admin)

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 5200
Hello Jenny,

Here is another perspective/way to think of this.

I do not think you necessarily have to have all the answers and boundaries in place before you address this. They are definitely helpful, but not necessary. It is ok to say you don't know or you are waiting and seeing, that you don't know what you expect or want or how long you will live with the status quo. Actually, in some respect (if we are being tactical), it may be more effective to approach it this way (I wouldn't know, as i handed down the iron fist when i first found out). But I imagine that if I had said "this is what I think, here is why, here are my sources of information and my evidence to the fact. You can refute or deny but I know what i know and I am going to stay true to myself. This is how this has impacted me so far. I don't know what will happen next other than I am working on my own healing so that I can figure it out. Ideally, I would like you to face this problem and seek help to contribute to the health of our marriage, but this is up to you. I know that I cannot make you do anything, etc." the effect might have been much more powerful. Instead of hearing "you are not okay, you are defective, you are a monster" (my husbands translation of my reaction) he would have heard "I love you and care about you, I see this is a problem and it is a problem for me. I want to work it out, but I can't do it for you. I am doing my part by focusing on myself for now, but this is not permanent. I will not tolerate the status quo forever". Hearing that would have given him the opportunity to decide for himself, not react to my reaction which will most often spur them into action/crisis control, which is less often a sincere expression of their commitment.

Anyhow, this is a lot to digest. You are wise to take a step back and think about the best course of action for yourself. My recommendation is to come from your true heart/head, not from ego and reaction. Ego will demand you to protect yourself at all costs, which sometimes translates into extremes (as it did for me, and many other partners I have observed). Your true heart/head will have you take action from your values and your vision for your life, with compassion, which-as dnell aptly pointed out-you will likely be in a better place to do this once you have completed some of the lessons. But if keeping this a secret from your partner is a conflict of values for you, keeping it short and honest as you really don't know/don't have all the answers, so only share what you do know. If you know you love your partner despite this, you can share that. Doing so may feel vulnerable, and it is, but it is also honest (that is, if it is honest ;) ). Telling your partner you still love them won't make or break their recovery and will likely help you in your healing as you will be being honest with yourself and acting in a manner that is probably in alignment with your values. Most of all, it is okay to not know and to tell him you don't know.

Be well

_________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. (Viktor E. Frankl)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:29 am 
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thankyou for that

I have in the past become tearful,and wanting to know why he as done this or that. I know from past experience he will not tell the truth unless I have proof..and then it is the least info he can get away with, when I have asked why and does he not love me or want me - he will say he loves me, and that he is stupid. that is all I get,
but if the conversation becomes more emotional than he can take, he will become aggressive, turn things onto me and ask if I want him to leave..a sort of bluff, daring me to keep on and drive him away, so I stop.
I think what I may do is continue reading, learning and building my self esteem and values, boundaries , boundaries I ma starting to find are coming to mind, as I realise I cant let myself be trampled over if he does certain things again in the future etc..( I am saving and trying to get out more, and somehow now my youngest is over 16 I am finding I don't feel quite as vulnerable as I once did-probably the repeated D days, the grieving and the recovering over 32 years has numbed me tbh.)
and if there arises an occasion where it is appropriate and I can remain non emotional, I will bring it up- he laughed it off the one time I said I thought he was addicted to sex(he assumes the typical sex addict is having sex all over the place and would be wanting sex with me all the time, as he doesn't, he doesn't see how this is anything to do with his actions, over the years he has called incidents "titillation"), but I will have to find the time to say what I feel, if I do as you say and base it on my caring, now I know it is his problem, rather than thinking he married me intentially to delude and betray me:( and putting all the blame on my short comings and failure to make him love me.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:57 am 
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Partner's Coach (Admin)

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 5200
Hi Jenny,

That he lies to try to cover up or flat out denies his behaviours is a sign that he has a problem (of course, one that is often turned around on the partner "if you weren't so uptight", etc.). There are a wealth of resources on the FAQ page (accessible from the home page-click on the picture of the tree in the upper left hand corner and you will land at the home page).

Be well

_________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. (Viktor E. Frankl)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:26 am 
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Well, I told my husband my fears last night, it was going to be yet another night where I was ignored, a couple of wines, watching tv, I wanted to snuggle up, and he picked up his book..
I suddenly realised what I had been told here and by my counsellor..he wont change, things deteriorate, and I knew I couldn't lay crying again..spend coming years like this..,I said I felt he had a problem,which he denied,, tried it subtly,about being addicted,and I had recently found our situation was not unique, I said I loved him, mentioned sex addict..he denied any problems.to which I said you know in you heart you have a problem, and have for a long time..I said a bit more about escalation of what he is into which I didn't think was trully him,as he doesn't want it in realife when offered etc, it was the hardest thing as I always get punished emotionally..but I feel the pain cant get worse and now I know its not me...i told him that too,that it is destroying me,as I could never please him..now I know I never could as it wasn't anything I was or wasn't doing
All he said was he wouldn't let me drink wine if this was what happens..he always says its the wine I I bring up anything emotionality,anyhow, he just lay down and shut his eyes, his face looked like he was going to cry..or shout.
Then he just lay for. Ages with his eyes rolled up and flickering..not a word, I didn't say anything more, I was hoping he was mulling something over ...probably not, but I said it with love, I didn't blame or bring up incidents...
It does feel a weight off me, another weight..first finding i wasn't alone,that it isn't me..and now letting him know I know it isn't me..that he has been addicted to sex.
I know I have a next counselling session soon,so now have someone to talk to about things, thank god..
As I feel so much pain was not being able to understand what I had done wrong,not being able to talk to anyone..and not being able to turn to the one person you need to for comfort..i just knew that couldn't go on.
And of course he is just back thus afternoon, as if nothing was said Las night...and has dat on pc doing some betting...it is hard when the person has a intimacy issue, and just does not know how to communicate on any deep level. I know if I start on again it will overload him and he sill react aggressively to stop any discussion.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:34 pm
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Jenny - I know so well that odd feeling of relief when I say my truth and the pain of my husband's dismissal of it. Worse, the blame shifting that occurs. I too would drink a glass of wine to get my courage up and my husband would also blame me and the wine. Blaming. It's such a common and destructive thing that addicts do. Taking ownership and responsibility for their behavior is a real challenge for addicts. And, if we are fortunate and they finally get sincere about recovery, it's one of the things I look for to understand if my husband is becoming mature and healthy: does he take responsibility for his behavior.

And, then the rejection. I got that too. Still get it. I say my truth, which can be painful, I talk about my needs, which are reasonable, and I'm greeted with anger, defensiveness, blame, and then rejection and abandonment. Here is the intimacy disorder. It's now so clear to me.

We can't control our partners no matter how much we care about them. We can only decide what to do for ourselves. I'm so glad you have a counsellor to talk to who is on your side. I so wish I could talk all of this out as a couple; to have a partner who was there for me and I was there for him; to know we were safe with each other and cared about each other. I didn't have that. I don't know if I will ever get that with my husband. I do know I have to figure out how to take care of me.

I read something the other day which was helpful. It said,, 'You'll try to seek emotional safety with your partner WHO ISN'T SAFE." That's what I was doing early on. Desperately trying to seek emotional safety. My husband's job is to recover, get healthy, then it is up to him to create emotional safety with me. For me. We'll see. He's less unsafe than he used to be, but not as safe as I need him to be. Absent your partner getting an awareness of his destructive behavior, he will continue to be emotionally unavailable to you.

Painful stuff. But, it's so much better for me to be able to say my truth here, in counseling, and out loud.

In solidarity,
dnell


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:57 am 
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Thanks, dnell, I told him last night I had joined a counselling site and now realised I wasn't alone in tho situation,that other wives were and had the sane experiences..i suppose I wanted to head off the usual bit about me over reacting ir exaggerating..

There are cuddles today, but I know thus is him making an effort to pacify me, thinking I I get a hug I will be ok
Yup, I have always had to have a wine to pluck up courage and always get told its the wine talking. As you say, I know he has intimacy issues..i cant start up again for today, I di pray something is in his mind, though thinking addicts actually think about their actions and recognise anything abnormal..mmm
I put orintout bits out of adduct articles in with his stash of dressups..so when he goes to act out..which this stress will no doubt make him want to, ge will see..if he reads will be another matter , I won't actually bring it up again unless I catch him at something.
But I feel calmer today,as if I have let go of my shame and blaming myself..and passes it ob to him, as you say I can't help him ..i told him that last night,aid I needed to help myself rom the damage I felt I had suffered..thankgod for this site, reassuring posts, and finding the courage to fund a counsellor..who I hope does help,her area is sex addiction, amongst others, ptsd included I feel at least supported, last session I just vented, now I can work on me with her,rather than desperately seeking comfort and support from husband..like you say, who cannot offer anything, I have broken the cycle,and that is a start I hope.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:22 am
Posts: 163
Well, seems husband has no regard for my feelings..though he cant help it I suppose..
Two days after I say what is my truth..and he denies having any problem...he has been looking at his porn site of choice..and ebay....the webcache is very handy. I should not have looked but curious as he has gone so quiet..it was between the betting sites..i wonder if it even crossed his mind why he found himself looking..not sure where to go from here, I would love to query why he just kay with his eyes so wierd after I had told him ..flickering as if he was in a trance..or was he taking micky..a sort if nah nah nah thing..
Thankgod I have the next therapy session soon
I downloaded a porn blocker...i couldn't help it,I may have to say it is due to daughter.who he was meant to be looking after while I volunteered today...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:47 am 
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Well,feeling pretty angry,but keeping it till next counselling session, I came home to find..the man who doesn't have a problem..had been on porn sites for ages today while looking after daughter..and I was again volunteering, he saw I was looking down,and said dont worry,I sill love you...hell, I feel so angry, he has no problem..then back on site.lists and lists, how can someone listen to you say you are being destroyed..have been through years of lies..and carry on, yup I know he probably feels more stressed.. Argggh, not sure what to do now, I have set the monitor to block..i feel the need to hear him get angry about it..and see his reaction when I say it is
Due to daughter who also uses our pc..I dread any popups appearing to her any time.
Thankgos I found counselling, she is helping me make time for myself,hopefully detaching emotionally and has me looking for adult education classes, as she said I offers my understanding, I offered my truth to help him see he has a problem..but I must concentrate on myself


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